Conflicting language - Part 107 Recurrent Testing

[Kristina Fowler]

I'm a bit confused. Which of these is correct (in red)? A or B?? Note underlines.

A (directly from 14 CFR)
§ 107.65 Aeronautical knowledge recency. A person may not operate a small unmanned aircraft system unless that person has completed one of the following, within the previous 24 calendar months:
(a) Passed an initial aeronautical knowledge test covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.73;
(b) Passed a recurrent aeronautical knowledge test covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.73; or
(c) If a person holds a pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under part 61 of this chapter and meets the flight review requirements specified in § § 61.56, passed either an initial or recurrent training course covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.74(a) or (b) in a manner acceptable to the Administrator

eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations: PART 107—SMALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS

OR

B (from the FAA Website; "Renewing Your Certificate")
It's important for all pilots, including Certified Remote Pilots, to stay current and keep their knowledge up to date. That's why the FAA requires you to renew your Remote Pilot Certificate every 2 years. Learn how to renew your certificate.

• You must take a recurrent knowledge test at a Knowledge Testing Center within 24 calendar months of passing the initial knowledge test.

FAA Website: Renewing Your Certificate

 

[shooter]

I'm a bit confused. Which of these is correct (in red)? A or B?? Note underlines.

A (directly from 14 CFR)
§ 107.65 Aeronautical knowledge recency. A person may not operate a small unmanned aircraft system unless that person has completed one of the following, within the previous 24 calendar months:
(a) Passed an initial aeronautical knowledge test covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.73;
(b) Passed a recurrent aeronautical knowledge test covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.73; or
(c) If a person holds a pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under part 61 of this chapter and meets the flight review requirements specified in § § 61.56, passed either an initial or recurrent training course covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.74(a) or (b) in a manner acceptable to the Administrator

eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations: PART 107—SMALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS

OR

B (from the FAA Website; "Renewing Your Certificate")
It's important for all pilots, including Certified Remote Pilots, to stay current and keep their knowledge up to date. That's why the FAA requires you to renew your Remote Pilot Certificate every 2 years. Learn how to renew your certificate.

• You must take a recurrent knowledge test at a Knowledge Testing Center within 24 calendar months of passing the initial knowledge test.

FAA Website: Renewing Your Certificate

Indelicate wording.

The way I understand it, the bottom line is that new pilots have to take the renewal test within 24 months of passing the initial test.

Then, pilots must take subsequent renewal tests within 24 months of any prior renewal tests.

Am I missing something?

 

[Kristina Fowler]

Here’s the way I see it (and the cause of my quandary)…

For “A”; 14 CFR Regulations (see below) ["...within the previous 24 calendar months"] As long as there is a recurrent test in your 24-month history, you’re ok.
Example: Initial test date SEP2016; After AUG2018, you cannot fly. You may take the recurrent test anytime after AUG2018 (i.e: JAN 2019) and begin flying again since there would now be a recurrent test in your 24-month history.
Summary: According to 14 CFR, you can take the recurrent test anytime after passing the initial test, and that re-starts the 24-month clock on your license.

§ 107.65 Aeronautical knowledge recency.
A person may not operate a small unmanned aircraft system unless that person has completed one of the following, within the previous 24 calendar months:
(a) Passed an initial aeronautical knowledge test covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.73(a);
(b) Passed a recurrent aeronautical knowledge test covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.73(b); or
(c) If a person holds a pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under part 61 of this chapter and meets the flight review requirements specified in § § 61.56, passed either an initial or recurrent training course covering the areas of knowledge specified in § 107.74(a) or (b) in a manner acceptable to the Administrator.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

For “B”; FAA website (see below) ["...within 24 calendar months of passing the initial knowledge test."] You must take the recurrent test during a period that starts with your initial test date and ends 24 months later.
Example: Initial test date SEP2016; After AUG 2018, you cannot fly unless you took the recurrent test on some date between SEP2016 and AUG2018 (specific 24-month period).
Summary: According to the language on the FAA website, you MUST take the recurrent test on a date that falls between SEP2016 and AUG2018. If you don't, the opportunity to take the recurrent test is off the table.


______________________________________________________________________________________________

Can you see the difference?? What is the remedy for "B" if you wait 27 months after passing your initial test? "B" clearly implies that if you wait > 24 months from the date of your initial test, the opportunity to take the recurrent test is now off the table. Further, it does not state whether or not you can take the recurrent test at some time in the future. Do you then have to go back to square one and take the initial test again??

Which is correct: A or B??

 

[MapMaker53]

I believe if you go beyond the 24 month deadline for the recurrent test, you have to take the longer initial Part 107 test again.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

I believe if you go beyond the 24 month deadline for the recurrent test, you have to take the longer initial Part 107 test again.

Yes - that's implied by option "B", but what makes "B" more correct than "A"? "A" comes directly from the 14CFR, Part 107 regulations. "B" is verbiage pulled from a page on the FAA website. That's the premise of my OP. They seem to contradict each other. Which one is correct?? "A" or "B"? Do you see the ambiguity?

In contrast, it's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that a fixed-wing private pilot license (Part 61) NEVER expires - it's either "current" or "non-current". You simply need a flight review every 24 months and the obligatory 3 takeoffs/landings to get current. No mention of taking the written test over as far as I can tell. Why is the fixed-wing license evergreen after 24 months (doesn't expire), while the Part 107 goes "poof" after 24 months (according to "B")??

What am I missing??

 

[MapMaker53]

Yeah, I don't read "A" the way you are interpreting it, Kristina, but I can see the wording could be interpreted that way. I think the intent of the FAA is for everyone to have a refresher course every 2 years. I see a safety issue if, say, you went beyond the 24 months and couldn't legally fly anymore -- but then just took a refresher 10 years later. I don't think the FAA is making it open-ended like that. I believe they would want you to take the full test again. But others should chime in on this. I've been known to be wrong more than once.

I don't know anything about fixed-wing operations.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

I just got off the phone with the FAA regional FSDO office. My contact there said (emphatically) that only a "recurrent" test is required to get current - even if you're outside the 24-month window from the initial testing date. He used the word "intent" more than once.

As for option "B" (verbiage from that page on the FAA website), he said you should always end a sentence like that with "or what??" He went on to say that the logical conclusion is that you would not be able to operate a UAS in that case but that a recurrent test would get you back on track, similar to the 24-month flight review + 3 operations required for Part 61 private pilots.

Hope that helps. As my granddaddy used to say, "You have to kill your own rats" - in this case by checking with the source.

 

[MapMaker53]

Interesting. I'm very surprised by the answer. Thanks for researching it and getting us the clear answer from the FAA, Kristina.

 

[shooter]

I just got off the phone with the FAA regional FSDO office. My contact there said (emphatically) that only a "recurrent" test is required to get current - even if you're outside the 24-month window from the initial testing date. He used the word "intent" more than once.

As for option "B" (verbiage from that page on the FAA website), he said you should always end a sentence like that with "or what??" He went on to say that the logical conclusion is that you would not be able to operate a UAS in that case but that a recurrent test would get you back on track, similar to the 24-month flight review + 3 operations required for Part 61 private pilots.

Hope that helps. As my granddaddy used to say, "You have to kill your own rats" - in this case by checking with the source.

My bet is that if you spoke to 10 different FSDOs you'd get 10 different answers -- at this point in time, anyway.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

No. In fact, I took the opposite approach and tried to get him to give me the answer I didn't want to hear. How about that, shooter!

 

[shooter]

No. In fact, I took the opposite approach and tried to get him to give me the answer I didn't want to hear. How about that, shooter!

I'm shocked. The US government isn't very well known for consistency.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

I'm shocked. The US government isn't very well known for consistency.

Precisely the premise of my OP.

 

[Julius13]

With the Federal Government shutdown causing those who need to recertify right now, does that mean you are flying illegally if your certification has expired in the past 3 weeks? I suppose it does but no fault of anybody but Gubmint.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

With the Federal Government shutdown causing those who need to recertify right now, does that mean you are flying illegally if your certification has expired in the past 3 weeks? I suppose it does but no fault of anybody but Gubmint.

Took my recurrent test last Tuesday, JAN15. PSI says all the lights are back on.

 

[Julius13]

Did they ask any questions about weather or load and Balance? I've been told by someone they have eliminated these type questions.

 

[MapMaker53]

No weather or load & balance. But quite a bit of sectionals questions again. Took it in November.

 

[Julius13]

Thanks for the response. I should be fine then since I enjoy dissecting sectionals. Taking mine this summer.
Happy flying.

 

[PatR]

I just got off the phone with the FAA regional FSDO office. My contact there said (emphatically) that only a "recurrent" test is required to get current - even if you're outside the 24-month window from the initial testing date. He used the word "intent" more than once.

As for option "B" (verbiage from that page on the FAA website), he said you should always end a sentence like that with "or what??" He went on to say that the logical conclusion is that you would not be able to operate a UAS in that case but that a recurrent test would get you back on track, similar to the 24-month flight review + 3 operations required for Part 61 private pilots.

Hope that helps. As my granddaddy used to say, "You have to kill your own rats" - in this case by checking with the source.

What the FAA rep described for you is exactly the way currency works for full scale. Pilot certificates do not expire, they last for your lifetime but currency does expire. If a pilot ceased flying many years ago they would be ineligible to exercise the privileges of pilot in command. To resume flying that pilot would need to take and pass a currency exam, regardless of how long it had been since their currency lapsed.

The FAA is not differentiating between manned and unmanned certificates and currency in the regulatory process. One rule applies to everyone. If you want to fly commercially the day after your currency expired you need to pass a currency test on or before the currency expiration date. If you don’t you can take a break for as long as you want but need to pass a new currency exam before flying commercially again.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

Just a couple of days ago, I actually got a reply from the FAA help desk. They admitted that the language on the website was incorrect but stopped short of saying they would change the verbiage on the website to sych up with the actual regulation. Seemed like a dismissive tone to the reply. I replied back and spelled out how, despite their admission, it was still causing confusion amongst the rank & file 107 pilots as well as testing center administrators/proctors, and urged them to change the verbiage to correctly parallel Part 107. Disappointing they only gave me a half-answer.

 

[bobfa100]

I believe if you go beyond the 24 month deadline for the recurrent test, you have to take the longer initial Part 107 test again.

I agree with you. My understanding is 24 months after receiving your Part 107 official license, you must pass the recurrent test to be good to go for another 24 months. The official start date of your license shows up in the IACRA. That buys you a couple of extra months while waiting for the giant stone wheels to turn out your permanent license.