Disabling DJI airspace authorization.

[R.Perry]

Most of us know DJI can be hacked to disable airspace authorization. This is an extremely bad idea and could result serious consequences if one should get caught, or be involved in an accident.
It may sound tempting, but it's kind of like sports, you play by the rules or you get kicked out of the game.

This came up in a recent thread where it sounds like that is what someone was doing.

 

[Dave Pitman]

DJI's geo scheme is not official. Never has been. It is simply a company program. In addition, the firmware on consumer drones is not certified. Whether or not a commercial op changes parameters beyond what DJI sets as visible in their settings is meaningless in regard to legality. The operator is responsible for the operation of their craft, period. (BTW, "hack" is not really the appropriate term. It is simply just changing settings, or "parameters", in DJI Assistant software.)

Geofencing, height restrictions, etc., enabled by default is fine in most cases. And to some degree, it keeps the uninformed from getting themselves in too much trouble. But that's it.

If a commercial op needs DJI to take care of them, that's pretty sad. And I hope they don't purchase any other gear that doesn't come with manufacturer nanny-ware, cus there is plenty out there. But most of it costs more than DJI consumer gear or it requires a little more knowlege to set up, so it's probably safe.

In fact, if DJI's GEO ever interferred with a commercial op controlling the aircraft and something bad happened, DJI might also be liable because that interference is illegal. For example, you're flying next to a geofenced area and for some reason quick maneuvering is required, like a helicopter enters the area, and the drone won't let you retreat to a safe position because it is in the geo-zone. There is a slim chance that this kind of scenario would happen, but it is technically possible.

So yeah. If you like DJI's implementation of restrictions whether or not you are a certified remote pilot, then that's fine. But, it is not regulatory whatsoever. I checked once with my insurance agent and they said unless it is mandated by the FAA, then they could care less. YMMV.

 

[Phaedrus]

RPIC is 100% responsible for the safe completion of a flight. Failure to do so irrespective of a drone vendor's geofencing is likely not going to be a part of any violations or liability. Just like having an accident with it fully enabled would not protect you from liability either.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

I seriously doubt that "the drone did it" defense will fly. (pun intended)

 

[R.Perry]

DJI's geo scheme is not official. Never has been. It is simply a company program. In addition, the firmware on consumer drones is not certified. Whether or not a commercial op changes parameters beyond what DJI sets as visible in their settings is meaningless in regard to legality. The operator is responsible for the operation of their craft, period. (BTW, "hack" is not really the appropriate term. It is simply just changing settings, or "parameters", in DJI Assistant software.)

Geofencing, height restrictions, etc., enabled by default is fine in most cases. And to some degree, it keeps the uninformed from getting themselves in too much trouble. But that's it.

If a commercial op needs DJI to take care of them, that's pretty sad. And I hope they don't purchase any other gear that doesn't come with manufacturer nanny-ware, cus there is plenty out there. But most of it costs more than DJI consumer gear or it requires a little more knowlege to set up, so it's probably safe.

In fact, if DJI's GEO ever interferred with a commercial op controlling the aircraft and something bad happened, DJI might also be liable because that interference is illegal. For example, you're flying next to a geofenced area and for some reason quick maneuvering is required, like a helicopter enters the area, and the drone won't let you retreat to a safe position because it is in the geo-zone. There is a slim chance that this kind of scenario would happen, but it is technically possible.

So yeah. If you like DJI's implementation of restrictions whether or not you are a certified remote pilot, then that's fine. But, it is not regulatory whatsoever. I checked once with my insurance agent and they said unless it is mandated by the FAA, then they could care less. YMMV.

Good points Dave, but if geo fence is disabled and I have an accident in controlled airspace how is the FAA going to respond? As you stated there are plenty of drones out there that have no restrictions, and maybe that is the way to go if you want complete freedom to fly where and when you desire.

 

[Phaedrus]

Good points Dave, but if geo fence is disabled and I have an accident in controlled airspace how is the FAA going to respond? As you stated there are plenty of drones out there that have no restrictions, and maybe that is the way to go if you want complete freedom to fly where and when you desire.

Well, if you are in controlled airspace then you should have an authorization from the FAA. What DJI does is irrelevant. You have authorization to fly. Period. Anything that happens is on you as RPIC. DJI software has zip to do with it beyond being a potential annoyance to the owner. FAA authorization does not also require, or even address, DJI no fly zones, etc.

 

[Dave Pitman]

Good points Dave, but if geo fence is disabled and I have an accident in controlled airspace how is the FAA going to respond?

I'm pretty sure that the FAA would examine the incident with respect any relevant FAR, as always.

But geofencing is just a tool. Some apps designed for structure inspection also allow the user to set up their own geofenced areas as an operational fail-safe.

There are many good things about DJI's system, IMO. There are also bad things about it. I cringe when I read about folks stating that they knew it was legal to fly in an area because DJI Go did not stop them. That belief is more common than you might think. We know that is not the case, but many do not understand.

I have been very adamant in my view that DJI should offer the option to disable their scheme if an individual holds certification or licensure in their respective country. I have had some pretty long discussions over the years on the subject with Brendan Schulman, VP of legal at DJI.

 

[Fred Garvin]

...I have had some pretty long discussions over the years on the subject with Brendan Schulman, VP of legal at DJI...

Why do they not enable an option for 107 holders (and equiv internationally) for this?

 

[skiptv]

If you disable DJI Geo Fence and you crash and you had DJIs Care Warranty, they will not replace the drone. Additionally 'hacking' the drone can cause other problems.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

Most of us know DJI can be hacked to disable airspace authorization. This is an extremely bad idea and could result serious consequences if one should get caught, or be involved in an accident.
It may sound tempting, but it's kind of like sports, you play by the rules or you get kicked out of the game.

This came up in a recent thread where it sounds like that is what someone was doing.

This issue prevented me from completing a mission near a Class B airport using LAANC authorization. I do not see why DJI takes it upon themselves to prevent a 107 pilot from flying where the FAA says you can (using LAANC). Not unlike Toyota telling you you can only drive 55 mph on the interstate just because they think it’s good for you. This “big brother-ring” by DJI is nothing short of draconian.

 

[miturnbo]

Just like the Human Resources department in any organization is there first and foremost to protect the company (not the people as we might assume), the geofencing and other parameters that DJI sets up are there to protect DJI. DJI knows their continued future relies on them doing everything they can to ensure stupid people don't do stupid things so they institute rules in their equipment to curb it as much as possible. It's not governed by the FAA. But DJI knows the FAA could take action if needed and they want to avoid that.

I like this conversation, but we do need to have the right perspective. These rules in the DJI software are a product of DJI, not of the FAA and not "for" the FAA.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

....and ad nauseum...

 

[R.Perry]

I don't think any of us like a business from a communist country telling what we can and can't do. My only point was if their software has been modified and we have an accident how is the FAA going to view that modification.
Is DJI protecting their own interests, or is the communist government forcing them, that we obviously don't know.
What we do need it better American made drones.

 

[prodigal27]

This is my biggest gripe with DJI. I can emphasize with regular consumers having restrictions but at least in the USA if you have an active FAA license, you shouldn't have to deal with authorizations from DJI. Full stop.

 

[Phaedrus]

I don't think any of us like a business from a communist country telling what we can and can't do. My only point was if their software has been modified and we have an accident how is the FAA going to view that modification.
Is DJI protecting their own interests, or is the communist government forcing them, that we obviously don't know.
What we do need it better American made drones.

As I have noted a couple of times I doubt the FAA will give two hoots about the DJI software. You are the RPIC. If there is an accident while you are flying then they will look at you and what you may have done wrong. If DJI's software was important to them they would require all sUAS to have similar software, and they have not even hinted at that.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Personally I keep all of my aircraft and controllers at the latest firmware and updates. I do this because I use mine in business and even though @Dave Pitman said his Insurance Agent couldn't care less, I'm not going to take the chance. We all know that insurance will do everything they can to get out of paying a claim and I'm not giving them additional ammo.

With the Geofencing though, DJI's only real show stopper is the Red Zone. The Orange Zones are a self unlock on the controller, the Blue Zones you have to go through their unlock process and load the code, so you're really only stopped by the Red Zones. These zones should be there. They're prisons, jails, sensitive locations, and a few military zones. You should have to have a paper trail. You should have to go through a process to unlock one. Yes, I agree that a licensed pilot should have the option to disable Geofencing, except the Red Zones.

In an accident investigation, because you can self unlock an Orange Zone and get a code to unlock a Blue Zone, only violation of a Red Zone would trigger a response from the FAA. If you've got an incident involving a Red Zone bearing down on you, well, disabling Geofencing is going to be a minor issue compared to the huge hammer splat that you're going to be. It's going to hurt you by showing intent to violate the zone, but that's all really. Just a nail in the coffin.

 

[R Martin]

With the Geofencing though, DJI's only real show stopper is the Red Zone. The Orange Zones are a self unlock on the controller, the Blue Zones you have to go through their unlock process and load the code, so you're really only stopped by the Red Zones. These zones should be there. They're prisons, jails, sensitive locations, and a few military zones. You should have to have a paper trail. You should have to go through a process to unlock one. Yes, I agree that a licensed pilot should have the option to disable Geofencing, except the Red Zones.

That makes sense unless you operate within a Red zone. Then it's just another pain in the butt to deal with in addition to important stuff. I am aware that I am in a no-fly zone during game time starting one hour before until one hour after the scheduled event. I get that and avoid the stadium. But that one mile radius really limits where I can operate away from the stadium. Not to mention, it does not only cover games but events as well. There are quite a few during the year....maybe not so many this year (hopefully). That is all beside the point. I hold a cert for 107 and maintain it. I am current on Federal regs and remain so. I do not need a foreign country telling me where and when I can operate. I am better qualified and better informed to make that decision. This is one of the reasons that I ditched DJI products.

 

[Dave Pitman]

Personally I keep all of my aircraft and controllers at the latest firmware and updates. I do this because I use mine in business and even though @Dave Pitman said his Insurance Agent couldn't care less, I'm not going to take the chance. We all know that insurance will do everything they can to get out of paying a claim and I'm not giving them additional ammo.

Fred, understandable sentiment. The problem is, DJI firmware, besides not being "approved" or "certified" by anyone, has a long reputation of breaking one thing while addressing another. As mentioned, the FAA and by extension your insurance underwriter, will be concerned with what YOU do in relation to the flight. My birds stay on firmware that has all the features available that I need while providing the most stable operation. If it is stable for a month, or a year, there is no reason it will all of a sudden become dangerous if DJI puts out a newer FW.

But we all have to satisfy our own conscious. I get that.

n an accident investigation, because you can self unlock an Orange Zone and get a code to unlock a Blue Zone, only violation of a Red Zone would trigger a response from the FAA.

Again, you are conflating DJI's airspace with FAA airspace. Sometimes they overlap, but one is important and one has no operational meaning as far as the FAA is concerned. A simple example is DJI's red zone. They (dji) will not supply an unlock for a red zone, yet you may be hired to fly in one of these zones and get all required clearance from the FAA. How wrong is that? For the most part, DJI's scheme does not get in my way. But I have a P4P that has geofencing turned off for any of those oportunities in the red zone!

 

[Fred Garvin]

...They (dji) will not supply an unlock for a red zone, yet you may be hired to fly in one of these zones and get all required clearance from the FAA...

I've never had to unlock a Red Zone. The ones around me are very small and are prisons, jails, and a couple VOR's. So I've never had an issue with DJI's Geofencing. I've only needed a few Blue Zones as they're very small and only the immediate airport property and the approach/departure zone of the runways. No issue though; loaded it up and flew just fine.

You're saying that you've needed to unlock a Red Zone, have obtained all required paperwork from the FAA, called DJI to get a code and they refused to give you one even though you presented all required paperwork showing your authorization to fly in the zone?

 

[Dave Pitman]

The only RED zone that I have needed to fly in is a county courthouse/ county administration complex that also has a county sheriff booking/holding cell. For that reason, DJI has a RED zone overlayed. Since the FAA does not restrict flight over this facility, there is no one to provide "proof" that I am legal to fly there. So, there is no paperwork to supply to DJI for their approval. Kind of a catch-22 of DJI's making. Perhaps if the RED zone is actually in an FAA authorization area, you could get them to unlock it with your FAA waiver. But I have not tried.

I have many regular "custom unlocks" for airports in blue Authorization zones.