For the airspace that shows “0”, can you still get FAA authorization to fly there? Does the FAA determine what altitude you can fly at if they grant authorization?
FAA UAS facility maps - can you get authorization to fly in the ”0 feet” grids?
- Thread starter RickMC
- Start date
It is possible to get authorization for some '0' ft grids through either a COA through the FAA dronezone portal or through a manually written request through a LAANC provider if the airport provides in LAANC.
It all depends on the unique situation at a particular area and the airport. I have gotten '0' ft grid authorized through a LAANC participating airport.
A '0' ft grid near the tip of a runway is unlikely to ever get approved without a lot of extra safety mitigations and trust, and even then can be unattainable the closer you get.
Some airports seem to intentionally want to vet any operation or any operation over a very low height on a case by case basis which can show up on the UASFMs as many very low or zero tiles.
For example KSAN San Diego Intl Class B is all zero and 50ft AGL tiles in the UASFMs even like 5 miles from the airport. However we have discovered they want a manual LAANC authorization and they have been quick to respond to us usually 48hrs or less. we have been using Skyward for doing the manual LAANC requests. We have gotten 175ft in a zero grid approved, and 300ft in a 50ft UASFM tile approved for examples.
It all depends on the unique situation at a particular area and the airport. I have gotten '0' ft grid authorized through a LAANC participating airport.
A '0' ft grid near the tip of a runway is unlikely to ever get approved without a lot of extra safety mitigations and trust, and even then can be unattainable the closer you get.
Some airports seem to intentionally want to vet any operation or any operation over a very low height on a case by case basis which can show up on the UASFMs as many very low or zero tiles.
For example KSAN San Diego Intl Class B is all zero and 50ft AGL tiles in the UASFMs even like 5 miles from the airport. However we have discovered they want a manual LAANC authorization and they have been quick to respond to us usually 48hrs or less. we have been using Skyward for doing the manual LAANC requests. We have gotten 175ft in a zero grid approved, and 300ft in a 50ft UASFM tile approved for examples.
Florida Drone Supply
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Great advice above and we would just add to it by saying that you need to write a good safety plan and risk mitigation strategy to send with your request. That will give you the highest probability to getting a waiver approved.
MapMaker53
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I have what I think is an rare situation which occurs in the high density airport environment found in the New York metro area. I'm anticipating the need to fly in a zero cell 3 to 6 months from now that is part of LaGuardia Airport (KLGA). That KLGA LAANC grid is currently red, so I don't expect an immediate response -- but it seems I can still use the LAANC request portal to ask for an airspace waiver at those coordinates. (It doesn't reject me.) One question on the form is "What is the closest airport?" Turns out that JFK Airport (KJFK) is much closer to that KLGA owned cell, but if I answer "KJFK" to that question, it tells me I am applying to the wrong airport for the waiver. (Ironically, the adjacent cell to that red 0 ft KLGA cell is a green 200 ft KJFK cell. Just my luck to need the red zero one.) So the request forces me to continue to apply for the KLGA approval. I will only need to fly 0-75 ft AGL in that 0 ft red cell.
So my question is... am I following the correct procedure for obtaining manual approval for that cell? Is there any way of finding out an anticipated date when a LAANC grid might become active?
So my question is... am I following the correct procedure for obtaining manual approval for that cell? Is there any way of finding out an anticipated date when a LAANC grid might become active?
@MapMaker53
Hmmm some of what you are describing doesn't make sense to me.
1) you say the LAANC grid tile is "red", what site or app are you using?
2) from what I can tell JFKs Bravo is bigger than LGAs, so I don't see how it is possible for you to be closer to JFK but still within LGA airspace
3) I only have used Skyward for LAANC requests so I can only speak to that but using Skyward you can ask for authorization for an altitude higher than the UASFM grid tile by writing a 2000 letters or less explanation of why you need it. I usually use the majority of text to describe extra safety mitigations I take such as; white anti collision strobes on the drone at all times, using a 2-way air radio tuned to the local CTAF frequency (only for providing additional airspace awareness, not to communicate unless there is an emergency), and monitoring the FlightRadar24 app for watching local ADS-B participating air traffic.
Im not sure if LGA is LAANC or not, airmap is giving me conflicting info, and I'm too lazy to boot up my laptop to check
Hmmm some of what you are describing doesn't make sense to me.
1) you say the LAANC grid tile is "red", what site or app are you using?
2) from what I can tell JFKs Bravo is bigger than LGAs, so I don't see how it is possible for you to be closer to JFK but still within LGA airspace
3) I only have used Skyward for LAANC requests so I can only speak to that but using Skyward you can ask for authorization for an altitude higher than the UASFM grid tile by writing a 2000 letters or less explanation of why you need it. I usually use the majority of text to describe extra safety mitigations I take such as; white anti collision strobes on the drone at all times, using a 2-way air radio tuned to the local CTAF frequency (only for providing additional airspace awareness, not to communicate unless there is an emergency), and monitoring the FlightRadar24 app for watching local ADS-B participating air traffic.
Im not sure if LGA is LAANC or not, airmap is giving me conflicting info, and I'm too lazy to boot up my laptop to check
Florida Drone Supply
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The good news is that you are not trying to fly there immediately. While parts of the FAA are affected by the partial government shutdown, we have heard of waivers still being approved. With 3-6 months until you need to fly there you definitely have time to talk to someone at the FAA and make sure you are doing everything you can from a safety perspective to get the 75 feet of height you need.
@mapmaker
If you do need to go the COA route northeast is pretty fast, when the government was working before the shutdown it was only taking around 1 month to get a COA, obviously that could be different right now due to the recent shutdown
If you do need to go the COA route northeast is pretty fast, when the government was working before the shutdown it was only taking around 1 month to get a COA, obviously that could be different right now due to the recent shutdown
Yes. I've requested 100 and agreed to 50 in -0- grids( LAANC). Will not know unless you try.
MapMaker53
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I'm using the FAA Drone Zone portal waiver application to make my request and am referring to the FAA LAANC map found at the following link. ArcGIS Web Application I think my mistake is looking at an ArcGIS LAANC grid which may not be up to date, but clearly it is closer to JFK than LGA. (See below) A check with AirMap confirms it is a zero cell requiring a manual waiver. So I will continue forward with that and also look into the COA route as you suggest. Thanks.
I will take a look at this situation in a couple hours when i can boot up my laptop without screaming young children to take care of.
I love airspace mysteries. I feel like New York, LA and San Diego have some of the most confusing airspace delineations in the country
Okay so I did a little bit of digging, and it appears you are in an interesting area.
There are not many places in the USA where you have 2 Class Bravo airports so close that their surface airspace touches.
So as far as I understand that area of airspace falls under both LGA and JFK jurisdiction, it is sort of a blend. A New York aviator may have a more nuanced understanding.
Anyways, JFK is LAANC and LGA isn't. Therefore I believe a written Authorization through the FAA dronezone ( www.faadronezone.faa.gov ) is the best and probably only option.
I would get a request out ASAP and date it out from today's day to 1 year from now.
I would request it from JFK, because it is closer to JFK. But either LGA or JFK would hopefully be fine.
Those airports have their own established way for dealing with UAS flight requests but in my proposal I would include these phrases or some version of it, in addition to any additional safety mitigations you will employ and airports have all been happy with it as far as I can tell for areas they are concerned about;
1) The PIC shall call ATC as directed on the Authorization 3 (or whatever you want but 3-5 seems to work for most people) business days in advance to propose an operation day, location, time etc etc etc up to X height AGL.
a) list out the details you are going to send, date, time, height AGL, total time in air expected, etc etc
2) If approved by ATC the PIC shall then call ATC 30 minutes prior to operation to receive final authorization to fly.
3) PIC shall follow all directions given by ATC at all times.
4) Any deviation from ATC instructions shall be reported to ATC.
Ideally I like to write the 3 letter code for the airport I am communicating with, like JFK ATC etc but in this case I am not sure who has the primary control of that area.
Now if you get this approved they will likely spell this all out again on the Authorization.
I am unsure how much you write into an authorization but I recommend writing out a lot of your safety steps. Even just restating you are going to follow all the 107 rules can be good.
Don't make it a novel, keep it organized and don't make it a wall of text, use extra lines between small paragraphs etc. But don't be afraid to list out the important facts boom boom boom.
If you want the ultimate insurance copy and paste the entire request and send it out for both JFK and LGA. The UAS authorization folks will throw out the one that doesn't apply. I have done before that for a few tricky places.
Best of luck and cheers!
-Chris
MapMaker53
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Thanks for the tips, Chris. I will apply to both for a waiver. Unfortunately, I'm going to need to fly in June or July, so asking for an authorization date a year from now won't work for me. I'll probably drop the request to 50' AGL since that's probably all I require to get the low-level shots that I will need, and hope that quells ATC's concern a bit.
Again, thanks for taking time to look at the situation. I sure wish the KLGA grid would come online.
--Bill
Again, thanks for taking time to look at the situation. I sure wish the KLGA grid would come online.
--Bill
Earnest Ward
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Chris' recommendations are all spot on.
One addendum - if you click on the grid unit in the UASFM a window will open with details pertaining to that grid. (See attached.) In this case (as has been stated) both airports have "shared" authority. And, sinceJFK's LAANC Readiness for this grid is shown as "1", you should be able to submit a manual request through LAANC for JFK and get a faster response than going the 107.41 route through DroneZone.
Best of luck.
MapMaker53
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How long does it take to get an authorization for 0 grid for an airport that is part of LAANC? The area of my operation is mostly in a corner of 0 grid airspace adjacent to a 400 ft grid and part of the flight area is in the 400 ft grid. I put in an request through the Kittyhawk app and it says it’s “Pending FAA review”. I know non-LAANC request can take a long time but since this is LAANC should it get approved quicker?
This is totally up to the airport in question and how they handle things. You may want to call and see what their typical timeline is. I have a local airport that tries to respond within 48-72 hours, and I have had other airports sit on it for 2 weeks.
-Chris
MapMaker53
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I've tried that via AirMap. First got rejected upon submission when requesting a flight time for today. Said it was too close a date for manual approval. I then tried for June 1st and got rejected because it was beyond 90 days out. My third attempt was for May 1st and the response I get is:
FAA - JFK
Manual authorization to fly in controlled airspace
Rejected Upon Submission
Do Not fly in Class B controlled airspace without ATC authorization.
Same rejection using other services. LAANC doesn't seem to work for this cell. Tried the same using Kittyhawk, and that just says LAANC is not active or available for the planned operation area. I'm going to reach out to ATC to get their advice on how best to proceed in this case where a LAANC cell is shared by the two airports.
Russ Still
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Ok now I’m confused. I’m looking to do a commercial flight at this particular address and on the official UAS facility maps it’s in a 200 ft grid. However if I go to AirMap, Skyward, or Kittyhawk to get a LAANC authorization, that same exact location is shown outside of controlled airspace and it won’t allow me to get authorization. If I try to submit to LAANC It just says “The planned operation falls outside of controlled airspace”. Any ideas?
