Hivemapper - Mapping by Video

dougcjohn · Jan 1, 2020

Looks like it’s been around for a bit, I recently stumbled across.
The concept & process looks very interesting for 3D modeling more so than 2D Photogrammety.
Although reviews and Hivemapper site indicate measurements are a component.

Hivemapper - Build a better map together

Making an accessible global map, built by all of us.

hivemapper.com

Any one use Hivemapper?

MapMaker53 · Jan 3, 2020

If this is the quality you can expect, as seen in their Gallery examples, I'll pass.

dougcjohn · Jan 3, 2020

I'd agree if that was their quality.... that really is a melted pile of mush. The ones I've seen are much better... good detail within their focal zone. I also don't beleive this technique is represented as detail or sharpe as 2D Photogramatry. The focus is 3D, althogh the example you sited is crap mush!

I've seen several examples of pretty nice detailed images... but like any 3D, it's really dependent on angle and possibly multiple altitudes for structures.

MapMaker53 · Jan 4, 2020

Agreed. I'm just going by the multiple examples presented in their Gallery. I even opted to use Hivemapper to view them, figuring that would give optimal results.

jaja6009 · Jan 4, 2020

Pix4D claims you can use video instead of stills. But it also says that even 4K is equal to 8 MP. I have yet to try videos on Pix4D, but it is on my list.

dougcjohn · Jan 4, 2020

jaja6009 said:
Pix4D claims you can use video instead of stills. But it also says that even 4K is equal to 8 MP. I have yet to try videos on Pix4D, but it is on my list.

Now that I didn't know... and it makes sense the video images would be less... but I'd think higher than 8MP.
Is that based on a certain camera... like a 12 or 24MP camera.

dougcjohn · Jan 4, 2020

Little Off subject but it's only a small group... the 3 of us.

@jaja6009 mentioned Pix4D. I've been experimenting with Metashape, the 2D Photogrammetry are nice but the 3D are very poor. Last time I tried a 2nd layer of images at a lower to ground altitude and a slow loop capturing several photos around a structure within a construction site. Weather running with the higher altitude survey grid combined or separately, the structure loop still doesn't appear to approach acceptable 3D image. The lower pass did improve the structure; maybe I just need more images or 2 loops at different altitudes. I was impressed how Metashape combined & used all the images from different altitudes: Aerial & close.

What's been your preferred program for 3D modeling and photogrammetry?
I tried ReCap, SimActive Correlator3D, & RealityCapture... all look pretty good but wouldn't run on my iMac (Windows).
They all complained for a Nvidia GPU. The MetaShape runs on Mac & PC with Nvidia or Radeon GPU's.

Recently added a iMac with Nvidia GTX780 4GB GPU.. which satisfies the above products in Win10.

I've used Map Pilot and processed through MapsMadeEasy... again 2D photogrammetry image great, 3D low res crap.

jaja6009 · Jan 5, 2020

dougcjohn said:
Now that I didn't know... and it makes sense the video images would be less... but I'd think higher than 8MP.
Is that based on a certain camera... like a 12 or 24MP camera.

I am no expert at all on photogrammetry, I just like to play around with it, but here is a link to Pix4D's page on using 4K video.

How to use Videos for Processing

Important: For accurate mapping it is not advised to use videos: In most cases, the quality of the results will be inferior than those generated using still imagery. 4K videos from cameras such...

support.pix4d.com

I have it on my list of things to do. It seems like if you want to make the best maps with a drone that costs under $2000, the Phantom 4 Pro or advanced is the way to go. With the 1" CMOS and 20MP and the mechanical shutter it can move fast to collect the images while offering 20MP on the larger CMOS sensor which will be better than my Anafi Work with its sub 1" sensor and 21MP.

jaja6009 · Jan 5, 2020

dougcjohn said:
Little Off subject but it's only a small group... the 3 of us.

@jaja6009 mentioned Pix4D. I've been experimenting with Metashape, the 2D Photogrammetry are nice but the 3D are very poor. Last time I tried a 2nd layer of images at a lower to ground altitude and a slow loop capturing several photos around a structure within a construction site. Weather running with the higher altitude survey grid combined or separately, the structure loop still doesn't appear to approach acceptable 3D image. The lower pass did improve the structure; maybe I just need more images or 2 loops at different altitudes. I was impressed how Metashape combined & used all the images from different altitudes: Aerial & close.

What's been your preferred program for 3D modeling and photogrammetry?
I tried ReCap, SimActive Correlator3D, & RealityCapture... all look pretty good but wouldn't run on my iMac (Windows).
They all complained for a Nvidia GPU. The MetaShape runs on Mac & PC with Nvidia or Radeon GPU's.

Recently added a iMac with Nvidia GTX780 4GB GPU.. which satisfies the above products in Win10.

I've used Map Pilot and processed through MapsMadeEasy... again 2D photogrammetry image great, 3D low res crap.

I am lucky in that I am a bit of a gamer and have a jacked up gaming computer that runs Pix4D pretty well.

I prefer Pix4D just because last semester I took a Remote Sensing class at the local community college and that was one of the software solutions they used. The college also has the ridiculous priced Drone Deploy Enterprise that lets you do anything and get priority on cloud projects. For me Pix4D is better in that when you run it on the desktop you control the processing. I add manual tie points as well as well placed size constraints and get a Relative Accuracy in the centimeter range. My Absolute Accuracy suffers since I do not have anyway to use well placed and accurate GCPs. If I had the 10 pack of Aeropoints, and a Phantom 4 Pro I could make some really good maps.

I have not tried Metashape only because I do not have access to it. The Remote Sensing class gave me a voucher that will let me take Pix4D's online Certification module and if I pass I will be Pix4D certificated so Pix4D will be my choice. I do own a 1 year subscription to Pix4D model, but have been talking with someone about jointly buying Pix4D mapper Perpetual License.

As to not muddy up this thread I will contact you in private about the other questions.

skyeboysteve · Mar 29, 2020

dougcjohn said:
Now that I didn't know... and it makes sense the video images would be less... but I'd think higher than 8MP.
Is that based on a certain camera... like a 12 or 24MP camera.

Not based on a specific camera's specs... Just that 4K is 2160x3840=8MP.

I'm rather curious what niche HiveMapper is filling? I like the fact that apparently you can process as much mapping as you want for free (as long as you're okay with making it all public) [every other mapping service I know of limits your area for free processing-Altizure is by far the best of the several I've tried including Pix4D, Metashape, Maps Made Easy, Drone Deploy, ReCap, etc]; but the quality with HiveMapper is practically useless--less than Google Earth it seems; though of course you can get more up to date imagery than GE. Seems like video (although much easier to use when using apps like Litchi or flying manually) is just not going to be very good with rolling shutters (are there any drones with CCD camera sensors?) unless you fly pretty slow and high. Of course, you also get a lot more overlap between frames everything else being equal.

dougcjohn · Mar 29, 2020

The new kid on the block is SkyeBrowser... uses video and it does look very clean for 3D. Focused on accident reconstruction to quickly grab a wreck scene, but can perform same on construction sites or Realty.

SkyeBrowse — Free 2D Maps and 3D Models Using Any Video

Quick and Easy 2D/3D Mapping in 1 Button Press

www.skyebrowse.com

I'm close to making a purchase on this one. Looks like a nice developing product.
Need to have a few conversations with them first.

dougcjohn · Mar 29, 2020

skyeboysteve said:
Not based on a specific camera's specs... Just that 4K is 2160x3840=8MP.

I'm rather curious what niche HiveMapper is filling? I like the fact that apparently you can process as much mapping as you want for free (as long as you're okay with making it all public) [every other mapping service I know of limits your area for free processing-Altizure is by far the best of the several I've tried including Pix4D, Metashape, Maps Made Easy, Drone Deploy, ReCap, etc]; but the quality with HiveMapper is practically useless--less than Google Earth it seems; though of course you can get more up to date imagery than GE. Seems like video (although much easier to use when using apps like Litchi or flying manually) is just not going to be very good with rolling shutters (are there any drones with CCD camera sensors?) unless you fly pretty slow and high. Of course, you also get a lot more overlap between frames everything else being equal.

I'm not impressed with MME 3D at all... I was looking at RealityCapture, they have an interesting price model. Until you need to sell or use in business, all the modeling is Free processing. The images in modeling are purchased once, even if used in multiple files later in future.

RealityCapture - 3D Models from Photos and/or Laser Scans

Capturing Reality photogrammetry solutions enable you to create ultra-realistic 3D assets and environments from photos and/or lasers scans.

www.capturingreality.com

What is the price structure for Altizure ?
Looking at Web site... full package is $3100 yr for their Gold package, Silver $310... big difference.

skyeboysteve · Mar 29, 2020

dougcjohn said:
I'm not impressed with MME 3D at all... I was looking at RealityCapture, they have an interesting price model. Until you need to sell or use in business, all the modeling is Free processing. The images in modeling are purchased once, even if used in multiple files later in future.

RealityCapture - 3D Models from Photos and/or Laser Scans

Capturing Reality photogrammetry solutions enable you to create ultra-realistic 3D assets and environments from photos and/or lasers scans.

www.capturingreality.com

What is the price structure for Altizure ?
Looking at Web site... full package is $3100 yr for their Gold package, Silver $310... big difference.

I like RealityCapture for that reason, but I still couldn't get as good results with it (after two weeks of tweaking) than I got with Altizure using the same photos with no tweaking (you actually have no control with processing files with Altizure).

I hadn't seen those prices for Altizure--the price structure I had seen was based on data size--using credits called "Alticoin". It's still not cheap in the end, but of all the other cloud based processors it seems to not only give the best results but also the largest amount of data to process for free--3 Giga Pixels (combined) per map is the limit for free. Much higher than the free quota for Maps Made Easy for example--at least last time I compared.

dougcjohn · Apr 3, 2020

skyeboysteve said:
I like RealityCapture for that reason, but I still couldn't get as good results with it (after two weeks of tweaking) than I got with Altizure using the same photos with no tweaking (you actually have no control with processing files with Altizure).

I hadn't seen those prices for Altizure--the price structure I had seen was based on data size--using credits called "Alticoin". It's still not cheap in the end, but of all the other cloud based processors it seems to not only give the best results but also the largest amount of data to process for free--3 Giga Pixels (combined) per map is the limit for free. Much higher than the free quota for Maps Made Easy for example--at least last time I compared.

Was looking at Altizure, looks like a great product.
Although, finding an English Youtube to introduce & walk through features seems unavailable.

As nice as it looks, and out for multiple years... why hasn’t this become a discussed product? Why no motivated 3D modeler, even outside of sUAV hasn’t cranked out a few instructional videos. Currently it’s all Asian (Chinese / Japanese?) on their YouTube channel and no English offerings.

Do you have a resource that touches these points?

dougcjohn · Apr 3, 2020

The SkyeBrowse seems to be getting popular.
Garret Bryl is even cutting a few videos expressing praise in both daylight & night operations.... soon even thermal 3D modeling if to guess since Garret is well recognized in the thermal & SAR work.

Had a lengthy conversation with SkyeBrowse, they claim much greater detail than Pix4D or others.

I did inquire how when a 4K frame was 8meg... And He explained that it’s also so many more frames than stills, equating to much more data compared to images.