Life of a drone

[R.Perry]

Let's say you have a 25k investment in your drone or drones. What would you figure the life of that drone is, and incorporate that into your client billing? Now I do realize that batteries are going to be a different but expensive factor since I normally don't get a 100 hours out of a battery or pair of batteries.
My thinking wasn't a fixed date, but hours of operation. If so, how many hours is expected out of that drone? Now I know various drones may have different life spans, I'm just trying to get an idea of how to calculate that depreciation in a somewhat realistic way, and yes, I haven't retired, got a new gig going.

 

[BigAl07]

You just can't quit can you? LOL

Good for you.

I'm a bit different than most... I get a LOT of life out of my equipment and I do fly a LOT. I still have a P3S and P3P in service although they are now dedicated to Flight Training only so they only fly a few hours a month.

P3's fly 5+/- hrs a month
Our H520 flies about 60-hrs a year
Mavic Pro Platinum (Old School these days for Comm work) flies about 15-hrs a week on average. This year it's going to come out higher because it's been our best year to date.
Our SPARK flies about 30-hrs a year but it's only used for demonstration purposes.
P4P+ flies roughly 5-hours a month unless we have a busy Search & Rescue season and it could increase significantly.

I give you our hourly break down only because our accountant (IIRC) depreciates them out over a 3-year period not per hour. I'm pretty sure everything we have is now fully depreciated except maybe the P4 as we've had them all (I think) longer than 3 years now.

That probably helps NONE but it's a start LOL.

Allen

 

[R.Perry]

Thanks BigA, no that does help a lot. You are flying more than I am. Basically going to be doing AG mapping or Orchards and tree health, as well as mapping new ponds being dug and engineered to raise the ground water table.
Funny you mentioned the P3, I still have an old P3A and it doesn't get much use. Grandson does roof inspections with it at times.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks BigA, no that does help a lot. You are flying more than I am. Basically going to be doing AG mapping or Orchards and tree health, as well as mapping new ponds being dug and engineered to raise the ground water table.
Funny you mentioned the P3, I still have an old P3A and it doesn't get much use. Grandson does roof inspections with it at times.

The majority of my flight ops are one battery or less but I do a LOT of flights in the course of a week. I am very careful with my equipment and I honestly baby my equipment trying to get as much longevity as I can. I hate spending $$ on new equipment unless I just HAVE to.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Manufacturers come out with a new model about every 2-3 years. I set on 3 years to depreciate my aircraft assets. 3 years from purchase and/or initial in-service it's fully depreciated. I build this expense into my hourly rates. The client does not see this cost as it is rolled into my "Aerial Photography Services" cost that they do see. These services contain many other costs that I need to recoup. It's just one line item.

 

[R.Perry]

BigA, when I do the ponds that is a one battery flight. The orchards are several batteries obviously depending on the size. Most run between five hundred and up to two thousand acres. I'm actually considering putting the FIR camera on the Cessna 188 for the larger acreages, but then operational cost gets expensive.

Fred, I think your method makes the most sense. I am combining my depreciation, travel, flight, and post, into a flat quote. Example, I just did one of the ponds in Bakersfield, 480 miles round trip, fifteen minute flight, and post. I calculate my travel based on time, not miles, I was told if I bill mileage then I can't take the deduction, I'm billing my travel at forty five an hour and hundred an hour on site, with a one hour minimum. So basically I need to bill out a little over six hundred a month for depreciation. I"m only doing mapping on the ponds so I tack on a hundred and twenty five for the mapping.

The other issue is Drone Deploy outputting to CAD and XYZ output takes forever. I need exact volume reports for the ponds. One I was sent to was half full of water, so much for the volume report until it is drained.

 

[aerialimagery]

If you bill for mileage you can still deduct for mileage. You count the billed mileage as part of your gross sales. It doesn't matter how much you bill, you just report that as part of your sales and then you deduct your mileage according to the actual cost, unless you are taking the standard deduction. (Which is what you are indirectly doing now by charging a flat fee that includes the mileage).

 

[R Martin]

BigA, when I do the ponds that is a one battery flight. The orchards are several batteries obviously depending on the size. Most run between five hundred and up to two thousand acres. I'm actually considering putting the FIR camera on the Cessna 188 for the larger acreages, but then operational cost gets expensive.

Fred, I think your method makes the most sense. I am combining my depreciation, travel, flight, and post, into a flat quote. Example, I just did one of the ponds in Bakersfield, 480 miles round trip, fifteen minute flight, and post. I calculate my travel based on time, not miles, I was told if I bill mileage then I can't take the deduction, I'm billing my travel at forty five an hour and hundred an hour on site, with a one hour minimum. So basically I need to bill out a little over six hundred a month for depreciation. I"m only doing mapping on the ponds so I tack on a hundred and twenty five for the mapping.

The other issue is Drone Deploy outputting to CAD and XYZ output takes forever. I need exact volume reports for the ponds. One I was sent to was half full of water, so much for the volume report until it is drained.

RP,

If you are consistently doing large acreage plots then it might make sense to look at a UAS that can handle large tracts with less 'downtime'. Similarly, instead of Drone Deploy it might be worth your while to look into some dedicated mapping software. It doesn't have to be ESRI; there are free modules like QGIS that will do the job and allow you to accurately measure volume and distances accurately at little or no costs (other than learning to use it.). The price on Pix4D mapper dropped significantly as well since they split their cloud services off from the normal license; again, something to look into.

 

[R.Perry]

If you bill for mileage you can still deduct for mileage. You count the billed mileage as part of your gross sales. It doesn't matter how much you bill, you just report that as part of your sales and then you deduct your mileage according to the actual cost, unless you are taking the standard deduction. (Which is what you are indirectly doing now by charging a flat fee that includes the mileage).

Thanks, I didn't know that, sounds like I got some wrong information or I misunderstood.

 

[R.Perry]

RP,

If you are consistently doing large acreage plots then it might make sense to look at a UAS that can handle large tracts with less 'downtime'. Similarly, instead of Drone Deploy it might be worth your while to look into some dedicated mapping software. It doesn't have to be ESRI; there are free modules like QGIS that will do the job and allow you to accurately measure volume and distances accurately at little or no costs (other than learning to use it.). The price on Pix4D mapper dropped significantly as well since they split their cloud services off from the normal license; again, something to look into.

Thanks, no question, Drone Deploy is expensive. I will look into your recommendations. I have eight pair of batteries and just ordered another four pair. The eight will get me just under 500 acres so for the largest farms it is very time consuming. Any recommendations on a fixed wing.

 

[R Martin]

Thanks, no question, Drone Deploy is expensive. I will look into your recommendations. I have eight pair of batteries and just ordered another four pair. The eight will get me just under 500 acres so for the largest farms it is very time consuming. Any recommendations on a fixed wing.

We upgraded to a FireFly 6 Pro. It's about double the cost of an Inspire 2 with a decent camera but the coverage it provides has been a game-changer. I am able to fly 150 acres in about 38 minutes @ 330' AGL on one battery pair with plenty of room for comfort. A word of caution: I chose the Sony RX1RII 42 MP camera which is great. At 330' AGL I am still slightly below my 0.5 PX/in GSD but the size of the imagery required us to invest in an Alienware desktop to crunch the imagery in under 48 hours. My last large run netted 5500+ images at around 19-24MB each. The 2D and 3D processing took a little over 38 hours to complete. Our Dell workstation tried to run it but I shut it down after 8 days.

I know the cost up-front is a big deal for commercial operators and it is hard to see past that, but the savings in time both in the air and on the back end will allow you to be more productive and provide a superior product which should equate to more business and the time to do it in the long haul.

Best of luck to you.

 

[R.Perry]

Thanks Martin, 150 acres in 30 minutes is pretty close to what the Inspire 2 does, but at 200 feet, and two batteries. UC Merced was 160 acres and I did that once a week. The gear isn't coming out of my pocket, it's family farms and contracting to other farming operations. It is two fold, one being tree and vineyard health, secondly is the ponds that are being created to help raise the ground water level. The ponds are the only thing I'm actually mapping now, largest is about five acres. Orchards and vineyards are overflights. What bothers me is the amount of time that it takes to get DD to process CAD and XYZ files and we are only asking for five foot, not 0.5.

 

[R Martin]

What bothers me is the amount of time that it takes to get DD to process CAD and XYZ files and we are only asking for five foot, not 0.5.

If you are doing a lot of flights and processing a lot of imagery and plan to continue doing so for 3-5 years then it is really to your advantage to invest in a workstation (really dig in and make sure you understand the specs required to do the operation) and your own processing software. It will pay for itself vs contracting DD; and you get exactly what you need. Just my two cents. It wasn't that hard to figure out and the process is automated. Again, you just need to know what you want to be spit out and set the system up to do it.

 

[R.Perry]

At this point I'm not doing a lot, and the frequency of tree and vineyard flights hasn't even been established. Both operations are just getting started. The ponds are getting caught up in California's water resources board and that is a political mess to say the least. Here in California Southern California wants the water out of Northern, there is a constant battle between agricultural needs and the amount of water diverted to Southern. Basically it is a very complex problem so I wouldn't put a lot of eggs in this basket just yet, and I personally wouldn't have spent the money that has already been spent on this startup. I'm managing it, but it is other peoples capital and some are family.

 

[R Martin]

At this point I'm not doing a lot, and the frequency of tree and vineyard flights hasn't even been established. Both operations are just getting started. The ponds are getting caught up in California's water resources board and that is a political mess to say the least. Here in California Southern California wants the water out of Northern, there is a constant battle between agricultural needs and the amount of water diverted to Southern. Basically it is a very complex problem so I wouldn't put a lot of eggs in this basket just yet, and I personally wouldn't have spent the money that has already been spent on this startup. I'm managing it, but it is other peoples capital and some are family.

Yup, got it. Cadillac Desert. Required reading for one of my courses. Water in California is a mess and has been for a long time. So, the recommendation is not something you really want to go forward with until that fruit begins to ripen. But keep it on the back burner.