night flying

[johnsctt78]

i have a question
can i fly non part 107 as recreational at night just for private photo/video use non commercial?,also my mavic is reg part 107,when operating say as non part 107 is my reg backwards covered for recreational?

 

[BigAl07]

A Part 107 operator CAN fly under Hobby/Recreational rules YES! You just have to fly under the same set of rules for the whole flight (Can't mix & match in a single flight).

And yes a Commercially Registered sUAS can be legally flown as a Hobby aircraft. Commercial sort of covers you for all operations but hobby is only hobby.

Good questions

 

[johnsctt78]

Thank you BigAl07

 

[R Martin]

i have a question
can i fly non part 107 as recreational at night just for private photo/video use non commercial?,also my mavic is reg part 107,when operating say as non part 107 is my reg backwards covered for recreational?

Just make sure you know what the new regs are regarding recreational flight. They are a lot more restrictive than the old 336 regs.

 

[TreeLineView]

Does a "Recreational or Hobby" flight have a similar set of guidelines? Navigation lights that meet FAA regs, confirmation of site review prior to mission, at least one VO. I am putting a slide deck together for a presentation at the local library and know someone will ask.

 

[R Martin]

Does a "Recreational or Hobby" flight have a similar set of guidelines? Navigation lights that meet FAA regs, confirmation of site review prior to mission, at least one VO. I am putting a slide deck together for a presentation at the local library and know someone will ask.

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

Get it straight from the horse's mouth with the link above. Recreational rules are in Sec 349.

 

[AMann]

You can’t fly at night without a 107.29 operational waiver, and FAA requires one or more VO’s to do it (I just got a 107.29 waiver approved this week). Copy the table here for your program:

Part 107 Waiver

www.faa.gov

 

[Phaedrus]

Does a "Recreational or Hobby" flight have a similar set of guidelines? Navigation lights that meet FAA regs, confirmation of site review prior to mission, at least one VO. I am putting a slide deck together for a presentation at the local library and know someone will ask.

The new section 349 does not directly address night flying. For that you would need to default to the CBO rules you are operating under. For now that means the AMA.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/documents/100.pdf

Night flying requires a lighting system that provides the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination systems by themselves are inadequate for night flying operations and must be supplemented with other lighting systems.

 

[Phaedrus]

You can’t fly at night without a 107.29 operational waiver, and FAA requires one or more VO’s to do it (I just got a 107.29 waiver approved this week). Copy the table here for your program:

Part 107 Waiver

www.faa.gov

Incorrect for recreational sUAS operations. Section 349 governs their operations.

 

[AMann]

Incorrect for recreational sUAS operations. Section 349 governs their operations.

The OP was mixing up 107 and recreational in the post, you are right, I was quoting 107 use.

 

[Phaedrus]

Yep. He asked about flying at night as recreational using his Part 107 registered aircraft.

 

[TreeLineView]

The new section 349 does not directly address night flying. For that you would need to default to the CBO rules you are operating under. For now that means the AMA.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/documents/100.pdf

Thanks for the clarification. Spot on. Also found out that Hobbyist/Recreational flyers are not able to fly under any circumstance in Controlled Airspace.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for the clarification. Spot on. Also found out that Hobbyist/Recreational flyers are not able to fly under any circumstance in Controlled Airspace.

That's correct for NIGHT flying (which is the purpose of this thread) but for clarity that's only for NIGHT flying. If the location is in LAANC Hobby/Recreational can get approval for DAYLIGHT flying in Controlled Airspace. If they aren't in LAANC they can submit a request through Drone Zone.

I'm just making sure everyone reading this going forward understands the fine details

 

[Phaedrus]

Thanks for the clarification. Spot on. Also found out that Hobbyist/Recreational flyers are not able to fly under any circumstance in Controlled Airspace.

That is incorrect. LAANC is available to hobby pilots in controlled airspace or if you choose, you can fly at an established flying site with a letter of agreement with the local ATC folks,

 

[Phaedrus]

That's correct for NIGHT flying (which is the purpose of this thread) but for clarity that's only for NIGHT flying. If the location is in LAANC Hobby/Recreational can get approval for DAYLIGHT flying in Controlled Airspace. If they aren't in LAANC they can submit a request through Drone Zone.

I'm just making sure everyone reading this going forward understands the fine details

I have not seen a source that says recreational pilots cannot fly at night in controlled airspace. Do you have a source? Always like to be up to date.

 

[BigAl07]

I have not seen a source that says recreational pilots cannot fly at night in controlled airspace. Do you have a source? Always like to be up to date.

It's not nearly as clear and easy as a simple "link". Let me try and get this all down to where it makes some sort of sense and is remotely accurate LOL.

Currently all Hobby/Recreational flights (Section 44809) in Controlled Airspace have to have authorization. This could be through Drone Zone or LAANC. With LAANC (hobby or Part 107) there is no way to request for Night Flights because that requires a WAIVER and currently the system does not allow for Automated Approvals (LAANC) with a Waiver included. So any flights submitted into LAANC that fall after Civil Sunset and before Civil Sunrise are automatically denied. So Section 44809 flights in Controlled Airspace are unable to utilize LAANC (automated system). That leaves Drone Zone and currently ATC is not approving any night flights in any controlled airspace for Section 44809 which closes the only possible option for Night Flying in Controlled Airspace.

You have to be able to sort of read from multiple sources to be able to fully get a grasp on exactly how it's not allowed "currently". I don't foresee that changing in the near future for hobby fliers either. It's just not easy to "justify" the NEED for a hobbyist to fly at night in Controlled Airspace just like it's not currently possible for HOBBYIST to fly above 400' in Controlled Airspace. Both make sense to me.

 

[TreeLineView]

It's not nearly as clear and easy as a simple "link". Let me try and get this all down to where it makes some sort of sense and is remotely accurate LOL.

Currently all Hobby/Recreational flights (Section 44809) in Controlled Airspace have to have authorization. This could be through Drone Zone or LAANC. With LAANC (hobby or Part 107) there is no way to request for Night Flights because that requires a WAIVER and currently the system does not allow for Automated Approvals (LAANC) with a Waiver included. So any flights submitted into LAANC that fall after Civil Sunset and before Civil Sunrise are automatically denied. So Section 44809 flights in Controlled Airspace are unable to utilize LAANC (automated system). That leaves Drone Zone and currently ATC is not approving any night flights in any controlled airspace for Section 44809 which closes the only possible option for Night Flying in Controlled Airspace.

You have to be able to sort of read from multiple sources to be able to fully get a grasp on exactly how it's not allowed "currently". I don't foresee that changing in the near future for hobby fliers either. It's just not easy to "justify" the NEED for a hobbyist to fly at night in Controlled Airspace just like it's not currently possible for HOBBYIST to fly above 400' in Controlled Airspace. Both make sense to me.

Well said BigA. I called and spoke to my local FSDO rep. He said just about the same thing word for word. We actually spoke for almost 45 minutes on a multitude of things. I now have a new fried. I recommend that everyone create a relationship with their local office. My rep told me he was there so help me whenever I have a question or issue. Nice to know.

 

[BigAl07]

Well said BigA. I called and spoke to my local FSDO rep. He said just about the same thing word for word. We actually spoke for almost 45 minutes on a multitude of things. I now have a new fried. I recommend that everyone create a relationship with their local office. My rep told me he was there so help me whenever I have a question or issue. Nice to know.

Thank you. I try... sometimes I get it right and sometimes not-so-much LOL.

The FSDO is definitely there to help when they can. They are actively trying to clear the water and safely integrate sUAS into the NAS more and more each day.

 

[Phaedrus]

It's not nearly as clear and easy as a simple "link". Let me try and get this all down to where it makes some sort of sense and is remotely accurate LOL.

I'm pretty good at sorting through these things. However, you miss the part of the equation where people flying at a fixed site under an LOA that does not specifically prohibit night flying would be perfectly legal to fly at night.

Then, since Section 349 specifically directs people to operate under the auspices of an approved CBO Safety Program, if that program allows night flying, then you would be legal to do so. You might not be able to use LAANC for it, but probably could do it using DroneZone in advance.

Like you said, you need to integrate a chain oof information to get an answer.