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R.Perry

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I arrived at my job site Sunday Morning to do my mapping and video. The next thing I know is a ducted fan F4 Phantom is flying where I''m suppose to be mapping. Those things are darn fast. I went over to ask these guys if they had permission to fly over the campus and job site, (I knew they didn't but wanted to be nice), the guy with the F4 got in a hurry to land and he hit one of the light pols, the pole won. It was sad to see such a beautiful plane get broke up.
Well it goes without saying they weren't suppose to be there, and they knew it because as soon as they found out I worked at the job site and my purpose for being there the packed up and left.
So what is the point to this story, fly where you are suppose to. These guys were overflying the college and the job site so they were way off base. One thing though, those ducted fan RC planes are fast and could be a real threat to a drone that was flying autonomously.
 

Phaedrus

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Can't recall ever hearing of a commercial drone being impacted by an RC plane. As you saw, they break up easily. You can get them ready to fly minus receiver and batteries for a decent price.

Not sure where you were, but it being a Sunday they likely assumed that people would not be working and classes (you mentioned a campus) would not be in session.


 

LUIS MARTINEZ

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Can't recall ever hearing of a commercial drone being impacted by an RC plane. As you saw, they break up easily. You can get them ready to fly minus receiver and batteries for a decent price.

Not sure where you were, but it being a Sunday they likely assumed that people would not be working and classes (you mentioned a campus) would not be in session.


Hobbyists are supposed to fly within the infamous and mysterious "community based organization standards." criteria.

PS- Many colleges have weekend sessions. If they had no permission they were trespassing. Guess the pole took care of Top Gun... :D
 

R.Perry

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Just a followup, I spoke with the UAV director at the college, he said they did not have permission, and had been warned by the police Saturday not to fly at the campus (UC Merced, CA). As for the campus police on Sunday the only place they hang around is the cafeteria, must have a donuts in there.
 

LUIS MARTINEZ

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Just a followup, I spoke with the UAV director at the college, he said they did not have permission, and had been warned by the police Saturday not to fly at the campus (UC Merced, CA). As for the campus police on Sunday the only place they hang around is the cafeteria, must have a donuts in there.
A little respect, please...
1263
 

R.Perry

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Luis, have the utmost respect for law enforcement, but I also have a strange sense of humor.
 

BigAl07

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Ducted fan are a BLAST to fly especially if you get one that's got a light wing loading and "slick". The last one I flew was clocked at 130mph and it was a rush but it was ZOOM.... turn.... ZOOM....turn...ZOOM....turn.....line up and land....

By far the biggest rush was flying a true turbine jet. I never owned one but I had the pleasure of flying a very large scale F-16 a few years back. Once again ZOOM...turn....ZOOM (you get the idea). Sadly the owner had a flame out on climb out and he wasn't able to get it back safely. It went in pretty much straight down. The remaining pcs fit into a box 1/5 the size it came in and it was a LOT of $$ gone. Way too much for my wallet but so cool to see, hear and FLY!!
 

Phaedrus

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Hobbyists are supposed to fly within the infamous and mysterious "community based organization standards." criteria.
Well, without knowing exactly where they were, I cannot say they were not operating within AMA Safety Code for instance. There is nothing in the AMA rules that requires flying only at established flying sites.

BTW, nothing very mysterious about the rules. Here's the AMA Safety Handbook:

 
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Florida Drone Supply

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Ducted fan are a BLAST to fly especially if you get one that's got a light wing loading and "slick". The last one I flew was clocked at 130mph and it was a rush but it was ZOOM.... turn.... ZOOM....turn...ZOOM....turn.....line up and land....

By far the biggest rush was flying a true turbine jet. I never owned one but I had the pleasure of flying a very large scale F-16 a few years back. Once again ZOOM...turn....ZOOM (you get the idea). Sadly the owner had a flame out on climb out and he wasn't able to get it back safely. It went in pretty much straight down. The remaining pcs fit into a box 1/5 the size it came in and it was a LOT of $$ gone. Way too much for my wallet but so cool to see, hear and FLY!!
Never had the chance to fly one of those myself - sounds like a blast!
 

Phaedrus

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Just a followup, I spoke with the UAV director at the college, he said they did not have permission, and had been warned by the police Saturday not to fly at the campus (UC Merced, CA). As for the campus police on Sunday the only place they hang around is the cafeteria, must have a donuts in there.
That's good to know. Likely they were "rogue" flyers. Probably not AMA members or even aware there are rules.

BTW, I belonged to a club that was located on a college campus, so nothing about the location in and of itself would say "don't fly here."

But if they have been warned before, then they are idiots for keeping flying. Given the pole impact probably won't be back for a awhile.
 

LUIS MARTINEZ

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Well, without knowing exactly where they were, I cannot say they were not operating within AMA Safety Code for instance. There is nothing in the AMA rules that requires flying only at established flying sites.

BTW, nothing very mysterious about the rules. Here's the AMA Safety Handbook:

Fairly sure that trespassing is not an AMA policy.
My "mysterious" comments was sarcasm. The FAA never said "AMA" in its statements about "community based organizations." That has been an assumption. Who's to say the Dogpatch/Lower Slobbovia Happy Flyers R/C club is not a community based organization?
 

Phaedrus

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Fairly sure that trespassing is not an AMA policy.
My "mysterious" comments was sarcasm. The FAA never said "AMA" in its statements about "community based organizations." That has been an assumption. Who's to say the Dogpatch/Lower Slobbovia Happy Flyers R/C club is not a community based organization?
True, but based on the OP it was not clear they were actually trespassing. Later post clarified that they were. Thus they are rogue pilots.

AMA is the current de facto CBO. Even the FAA has mentioned AMA as a CBO in some documents.

But the congress in P.L. 115-254 FMRA 2018 cleared that up and actually defined what a CBO is:

“(h) Community-Based Organization Defined.—In this section, the term ‘community-based organization’ means a membership-based association entity that—

“(1) is described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;

“(2) is exempt from tax under section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;

“(3) the mission of which is demonstrably the furtherance of model aviation;

“(4) provides a comprehensive set of safety guidelines for all aspects of model aviation addressing the assembly and operation of model aircraft and that emphasize safe aeromodelling operations within the national airspace system and the protection and safety of individuals and property on the ground, and may provide a comprehensive set of safety rules and programming for the operation of unmanned aircraft that have the advanced flight capabilities enabling active, sustained, and controlled navigation of the aircraft beyond visual line of sight of the operator;

“(5) provides programming and support for any local charter organizations, affiliates, or clubs; and

“(6) provides assistance and support in the development and operation of locally designated model aircraft flying sites.

“(i) Recognition Of Community-Based Organizations.—In collaboration with aeromodelling stakeholders, the Administrator shall publish an advisory circular within 180 days of the date of enactment of this section that identifies the criteria and process required for recognition of community-based organizations.”.
If the Dogpatch/Lower Slobbovia Happy Flyers R/C club meets those requirements then they will likely be ab FAA recognized CBO.
 

LUIS MARTINEZ

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True, but based on the OP it was not clear they were actually trespassing. Later post clarified that they were. Thus they are rogue pilots.

AMA is the current de facto CBO. Even the FAA has mentioned AMA as a CBO in some documents.

But the congress in P.L. 115-254 FMRA 2018 cleared that up and actually defined what a CBO is:



If the Dogpatch/Lower Slobbovia Happy Flyers R/C club meets those requirements then they will likely be ab FAA recognized CBO.
Thanks for the lecture.
 

R.Perry

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Wow, personally I didn't have an issue with them flying there, and they weren't hurting anyone. Once they found out I was there to do my job, they said they were done flying. I really got a kick out of watching the F4 Pantom, until it his a light pole.
I knew these guys didn't have permission but I also hated to spoil their fun. They seemed more than willing to cooperate with me so no harm done. As for the AMA, really don't know anything about them. I do know a friend of mine flying a cessna 188 (crop duster) near Oakdale, CA hit a RC airplane years ago. He said it hit the prop but did no damage. Don't think the RC plain did so well.
My attitude is their tax money helps pay for that college, why shouldn't they be able to use it when it is safe. But that is just me.
 

PatR

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Funny you mention Oakdale and crop dusters. There’s a duster field a little south of Oakdale where the owner used to let RC people fly. You had to pay attention as you would not hear his turbine duster on approach until it was almost on the runway. The Oakdale dinner train tracks parallel the field, which made for some interesting flying. A down low air show for the train passengers.
 

clolsonus

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I arrived at my job site Sunday Morning to do my mapping and video. The next thing I know is a ducted fan F4 Phantom is flying where I''m suppose to be mapping. Those things are darn fast. I went over to ask these guys if they had permission to fly over the campus and job site, (I knew they didn't but wanted to be nice), the guy with the F4 got in a hurry to land and he hit one of the light pols, the pole won. It was sad to see such a beautiful plane get broke up.
Well it goes without saying they weren't suppose to be there, and they knew it because as soon as they found out I worked at the job site and my purpose for being there the packed up and left.
So what is the point to this story, fly where you are suppose to. These guys were overflying the college and the job site so they were way off base. One thing though, those ducted fan RC planes are fast and could be a real threat to a drone that was flying autonomously.
Sounds like you did exactly the best thing ... go over and have a friendly face to face conversation before you try to fly.
 

Phaedrus

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Wow, personally I didn't have an issue with them flying there, and they weren't hurting anyone. Once they found out I was there to do my job, they said they were done flying. I really got a kick out of watching the F4 Pantom, until it his a light pole.
As a long time RC guy I am pretty hardcore about flying both legally and with common sense. If they were explicitly told not to fly there (which I did not know at first) then they should not have been there. They give a bad name to us all (RC hobby) doing that.

Hitting poles sucks. I know, I've done it :confused:

I knew these guys didn't have permission but I also hated to spoil their fun. They seemed more than willing to cooperate with me so no harm done.
You seemed a little more unhappy about it in you first post. And in my mind you still did the right thing. I saw no issue with what they were doing based on what I understood from your first post. But again, if they have been told not to be there, then they were 100% in the wrong.

My attitude is their tax money helps pay for that college, why shouldn't they be able to use it when it is safe. But that is just me.
Schools from elementary up are getting less friendly to RC flying. Most schools ban it now. I do some flying in a far corner of a local community college on weekends. I launch and fly out over a fairly wide and deep canyon. Campus police have come by and talked with me, mostly interested in what I was flying. Never been run out, but I am also very careful about making sure I am not going to be a nuisance to anyone else.

Had not heard about the crop duster incident. I was an AMA District Associate VP for about 15 years, must have happened outside my time.

The Electric Ducted Fans (EDF) have become super popular. They are very cool, but I hate their short flight times, 4 to 6 minutes is average.
 

R.Perry

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Funny you mention Oakdale and crop dusters. There’s a duster field a little south of Oakdale where the owner used to let RC people fly. You had to pay attention as you would not hear his turbine duster on approach until it was almost on the runway. The Oakdale dinner train tracks parallel the field, which made for some interesting flying. A down low air show for the train passengers.
I know it well, one of my wife's family farms are close by, I did a lot of spraying in that area. I think I remember something about that RC field, wasn't it just south of town, close to the airport.
There is a guy flying a Lear 24 into that airport, that is an awful short runway for a jet.
Keith Kno was the FBO out there for many years, we became pretty good friends and I flew his C402 many times for charters.
 

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