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Why a waiver for this?

Weaponized

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I keep seeing folks mention waivers for operating in controlled airspace and I'm looking specifically at the FAA 107.41 rule that states...

" No person May operate small unmanned aircraft in class B class C or class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of class E air space designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from air traffic control"

My question is... If you are getting clearance from ATC why would you need the waiver? The way the rule and the waiver reads is that you would need the waiver to "deviate" from 107.41...not comply with it.

Is this accurate or am I missing something? If accurate what is the advantage of having a waiver?
 
I keep seeing folks mention waivers for operating in controlled airspace and I'm looking specifically at the FAA 107.41 rule that states...

" No person May operate small unmanned aircraft in class B class C or class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of class E air space designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from air traffic control"

My question is... If you are getting clearance from ATC why would you need the waiver? The way the rule and the waiver reads is that you would need the waiver to "deviate" from 107.41...not comply with it.

Is this accurate or am I missing something? If accurate what is the advantage of having a waiver?

ATC does not give you clearance per say. They are part of the decision making process when you process a certificate of authorization or waiver for airspace access. A COA is the preferred method of gaining access, both in paperwork and time. Waivers take a lot longer to receive because you are asking to ignore or deviate from the regs with a waiver. Under a COA, you are operating within the established framework of the regs; you are just asking to operate in controlled airspace.
 
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To operate in controlled airspace you need an authorization, not a waiver. There is a difference. Look it up.
I did. Thus the question. Flying in controlled airspace is within the scope of your part 107... You just need authorization.

I'm surrounded by 3 different military bases, a large International airport, and several regional airports and I've had no trouble contacting ATC or airport operators to let them know when/where I'll be flying.

I was looking through some threads here on the forum and it seemed some people were jumping through a lot of hoops to be able to do something that at least from my understanding should not have been that complicated.

One airport here in particular requires you to call the airport and leave your name and number with the operator. They pass it along to ATC and they call you back from a private number to get your flight location. Several others use an online system. Just making sure I don't need some piece of magic paper on top of what I'm already doing.
 
I did. Thus the question. Flying in controlled airspace is within the scope of your part 107... You just need authorization.

I'm surrounded by 3 different military bases, a large International airport, and several regional airports and I've had no trouble contacting ATC or airport operators to let them know when/where I'll be flying.

I was looking through some threads here on the forum and it seemed some people were jumping through a lot of hoops to be able to do something that at least from my understanding should not have been that complicated.

One airport here in particular requires you to call the airport and leave your name and number with the operator. They pass it along to ATC and they call you back from a private number to get your flight location. Several others use an online system. Just making sure I don't need some piece of magic paper on top of what I'm already doing.

To cover yourself, the answer is you need the paperwork. Calling the tower "should" only be an option for recreational flight but some towers will work with you. To satisfy the requirements under the regs you need a COA or waiver, depending on which route you choose, to operate in controlled airspace. That covers you in the event something goes wrong.
 
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To satisfy the requirements under the regs you need a COA or waiver, depending on which route you choose, to operate in controlled airspace.

Which regs specifically? I fully understand what a waiver is, and part 107 is specific in its language that they're needed for a "deviation" to the standard. I don't need to deviate from anything in it for what I do.

As for a COA... Part 107 doesn't even mention it and I searched the PDF with a search engine. Clearly they exist because I found the website to apply for one but what's confusing the life out of me... Is that if I need this document to operate, why doesn't it say that in part 107?

Is it new? Is it just some little trick to cover your a$$? Does it eliminate the need to contact ATC and the airport operator as stated in part 107?
 
I think where you're getting confused is that yes you only need an FAA authorization to fly in controlled airspace. But and this is a big but, local ATC cannot authorize you to fly in controlled airspace. You need a certificate of authorization either through LAANC or through the web portal
 
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I think where you're getting confused is that yes you only need an FAA authorization to fly in controlled airspace. But and this is a big but, local ATC cannot authorize you to fly in controlled airspace. You need a certificate of authorization either through LAANC or through the web portal
Ahh...clarity. To a degree. I'm still dumbfounded as to why that isn't spelled out clearly in part 107. Even the FAA exam marches in lock step with part 107. You would think it would be a test question.
 
Which regs specifically? I fully understand what a waiver is, and part 107 is specific in its language that they're needed for a "deviation" to the standard. I don't need to deviate from anything in it for what I do.

As for a COA... Part 107 doesn't even mention it and I searched the PDF with a search engine. Clearly they exist because I found the website to apply for one but what's confusing the life out of me... Is that if I need this document to operate, why doesn't it say that in part 107?

Is it new? Is it just some little trick to cover your a$$? Does it eliminate the need to contact ATC and the airport operator as stated in part 107?
Let me try to help you. As others have clearly stated, you cannot fly in controlled airspace w/o a COA obtained from the portal or LAANC. In the old (?) days of 333 you could call the tower and get ATC authorization, but 107 did away with that. Yes, some controllers are violating FAA policy and granting authorization verbally. The feds have made that clearly out of policy (call your local FSDO for official information) so UAS pilots are left in a legal limbo if a controller gives you verbal authorization over the phone and a mishap occurs. You believe the controller will back you up? If so, go with God.

There's no point in arguing the FAA procedures here, it is what it is.
 
Let me try to help you. As others have clearly stated, you cannot fly in controlled airspace w/o a COA obtained from the portal or LAANC. In the old (?) days of 333 you could call the tower and get ATC authorization, but 107 did away with that. Yes, some controllers are violating FAA policy and granting authorization verbally. The feds have made that clearly out of policy (call your local FSDO for official information) so UAS pilots are left in a legal limbo if a controller gives you verbal authorization over the phone and a mishap occurs. You believe the controller will back you up? If so, go with God.

There's no point in arguing the FAA procedures here, it is what it is.
Thanks. Between all these replies I'm starting to paint a picture here. I've been out of government for 15 years and it's (choke) comforting to see that nothing has changed.

And they're worried about us?
 
Thanks. Between all these replies I'm starting to paint a picture here. I've been out of government for 15 years and it's (choke) comforting to see that nothing has changed.

And they're worried about us?

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I got a call from the FSDO this morning about a couple of COAs I filed to replace a few that were expiring. I've always been very specific and only requested exactly what I needed to operate for three areas in the local air patches airspace. The FAA rep told me that it was a pain to process three COAs on a yearly basis so he decided he was going to give me blanket authorization to fly anywhere within the airports controlled airspace as long as I operate at an altitude that agrees with the posted limit on the Facilities map. Yes, the original requests were filed in April so it was a bit late but Merry Christmas to me.
The FAA is trying to make it a little easier for us to make a living but there is still a long way to go before we are treated equally with GA pilots. But I take what i can get and do what I enjoy...and even get paid to do it. The COA is the way to go. The paperwork is pretty straight forward and the approval process is getting better. LAANC will help when it is available across the board (September 2019 for FCTs maybe?). Just do not ever let one expire. You can renew them 30 days in advance of expiration and that process takes less than a week. You can renew them indefinitely.
 
Just do not ever let one expire. You can renew them 30 days in advance of expiration and that process takes less than a week. You can renew them indefinitely.

I've found an exception where the renewal didn't come through and I'm still waiting where others have been almost instant. I think it has to do with who the local controller is and in this case it is a nearby Navy air station even though the airport in question is not on base and not military connected at all... 65 miles away actually.

But who knows why really.
 
I've found an exception where the renewal didn't come through and I'm still waiting where others have been almost instant. I think it has to do with who the local controller is and in this case it is a nearby Navy air station even though the airport in question is not on base and not military connected at all... 65 miles away actually.

But who knows why really.

NALF?
 
That is what I used @R Martin with the results I shared above. The last 2 I submitted in May and one was renewed almost instantly (within a day) and the other by Whidbey I never heard anything and it has since expired. (I sent it in again after receiving the one approval in case they missed the other one but nothing). No renewal and no explanation. Typical FAA on that one. Another difference is that this is a surface class E with no control tower (Whidbey is approach control for IFR)

Again, who knows why.
 
That is what I used @R Martin with the results I shared above. The last 2 I submitted in May and one was renewed almost instantly (within a day) and the other by Whidbey I never heard anything and it has since expired. (I sent it in again after receiving the one approval in case they missed the other one but nothing). No renewal and no explanation. Typical FAA on that one. Another difference is that this is a surface class E with no control tower (Whidbey is approach control for IFR)

Again, who knows why.

That sounds more like the Navy was holding things up to me. It is strange. I know everyone has horror stories about dealing with the FAA but I just haven't experienced it. I may have to make a few phone calls and it might come down to the wire but I have always got an answer to the problem I needed solved. I just got a wide area authorization today on a pair of COAs I had asked for in April. So now the entire airport airspace is mine to play in as long as I follow the altitude restrictions of the Facilities map. I just wanted a half mile radius of space....of course who am I to argue?
 
That sounds more like the Navy was holding things up to me. It is strange.

The thing is, that if you send in one that they can quickly approve, they do their thing. Whatever was (is) the snag with this one, all they have (had) to do is send a one sentence explanation as a reply as a courtesy, "we're sorry, this may take longer because xx" After all, I did have the blanket COA already. If something has changed in the thinking with this particular airport then fine, tell me.
 
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The thing is, that if you send in one that they can quickly approve, they do their thing. Whatever was (is) the snag with this one, all they have (had) to do is send a one sentence explanation as a reply as a courtesy, "we're sorry, this may take longer because xx" After all, I did have the blanket COA already. If something has changed in the thinking with this particular airport then fine, tell me.
I hear you. They still have a ways to go before they (FAA) can call it good but it still seems like they are trying.
 

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