Another drone related aircraft incident

[R.Perry]

I don't fly helocopters, but I was a fixed wing CFI for a while. I always got students away from the airport unless we were teaching landings, or touch and go's. Actually in the area I was working we used and old abandoned military air strip.
I can't imagine a helicopter instructor having a student fly around trees or areas with a lot of obstacles. My personal opinion is the CFI screwed up and looked for someone or something to blame. My way of thinking is no proof of a drone, no drone, pilot - CFI error.

Whatever air space they were in really shouldn't be a factor.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

Whatever air space they were in really shouldn't be a factor.

I'm sorry to contradict you but the type of airspace is a determining factor in this case since if the drone couldn't be there we wouldn't be talking about this, just a helicopter accident. That's exactly what this thread is about, drones that do things they can't do.

 

[Weaponized]

I'm sorry to contradict you but the type of airspace is a determining factor in this case since if the drone couldn't be there we wouldn't be talking about this, just a helicopter accident. That's exactly what this thread is about, drones that do things they can't do.

I would disagree with that in this context… Even if the drone wasn't supposed to be there that pilot screwed up. What would he have done if a bird flew into his field of view? There are all sorts of things that cause in flight emergencies. The pilot has a responsibility to react to them correctly. If he does not... Its pilot error. You can't jump out the window with a parachute because you see a low fuel light and then blame it on the gas truck when the plane crashes into a school.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

I would disagree with that in this context… Even if the drone wasn't supposed to be there that pilot screwed up. What would he have done if a bird flew into his field of view? There are all sorts of things that cause in flight emergencies. The pilot has a responsibility to react to them correctly. If he does not... Its pilot error. You can't jump out the window with a parachute because you see a low fuel light and then blame it on the gas truck when the plane crashes into a school.

Yes, I'm not arguing anything about that. This is a drone forum and center only on drones. That's why I give so much importance to how to act with a drone and less to how the helicopter's pilot might have acted, that he might have done it right or wrong.

I have not said anything about the performance of the helicopter pilot, nor do I have the knowledge to do so, much less the knowledge that R.Perry or other pilots of manned aircraft that we have in the forum may have.

The news tells of an accident involving a drone and from what little we know of it, it is accused of being the culprit in the accident. I focus only on the drone.

We as pilots of drones and pilots of manned aircraft, as people, all make mistakes, but here it would not be paramount to talk about how drones fly? That's why I think it's very important to know if the drone was flying in a place where it can. I leave the rest of the considerations for those of you who know more than I do, while I'm at it I learn things

 

[Weaponized]

Yes, I'm not arguing anything about that. This is a drone forum and center only on drones. That's why I give so much importance to how to act with a drone and less to how the helicopter's pilot might have acted, that he might have done it right or wrong.

I have not said anything about the performance of the helicopter pilot, nor do I have the knowledge to do so, much less the knowledge that R.Perry or other pilots of manned aircraft that we have in the forum may have.

The news tells of an accident involving a drone and from what little we know of it, it is accused of being the culprit in the accident. I focus only on the drone.

We as pilots of drones and pilots of manned aircraft, as people, all make mistakes, but here it would not be paramount to talk about how drones fly? That's why I think it's very important to know if the drone was flying in a place where it can. I leave the rest of the considerations for those of you who know more than I do, while I'm at it I learn things

I was a multi engine flight instructor in the military so I'm a little sensitive about pilots trying to blame their stupidity on others. Of course at this point we don't know what we don't know so hopefully we'll find out

 

[ArrUnTuS]

The images speak for themselves. In this case, I believe that the fundamental question would be.......... Who is flying outside the limits of their airspace?

FAA investigates near drone-helicopter collision off Hollywood

 

[Rob Hodges]

If I'm reading the charts correctly and correctly related the chart to a map, he was very close but probably well within 5 miles of Ft Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport. The tallest buildings, shown on the chart (he looks to be level with the top of the tallest) are about 650 feet high (he looks pretty high on the video). I also doubt he contacted the airport using hobby rules. If he were a 107 person, I don't think he would have been stupid enough to post that on YouTube. He would have had to report the close call anyway. It's a mess.

On reading this again, I felt I should clarify, that I was referring to the above drone video....FAA investigates near drone-helicopter collision off Hollywood

 

[R.Perry]

Yes, I'm not arguing anything about that. This is a drone forum and center only on drones. That's why I give so much importance to how to act with a drone and less to how the helicopter's pilot might have acted, that he might have done it right or wrong.

I have not said anything about the performance of the helicopter pilot, nor do I have the knowledge to do so, much less the knowledge that R.Perry or other pilots of manned aircraft that we have in the forum may have.

The news tells of an accident involving a drone and from what little we know of it, it is accused of being the culprit in the accident. I focus only on the drone.

We as pilots of drones and pilots of manned aircraft, as people, all make mistakes, but here it would not be paramount to talk about how drones fly? That's why I think it's very important to know if the drone was flying in a place where it can. I leave the rest of the considerations for those of you who know more than I do, while I'm at it I learn things

You make a very good point, this is a drone forum, and the focus should be on drones, their pilots, and issues associated with them. The problem I have is the drone was not confirmed and it bothers me that there is a high likelihood that there was no drone involved, only pilot error on the part of the CFI, and that's where challenging the statements of the CFI comes into play. Put aside experience and think of it from the human aspect, with some people if they screw up they immediately look for someone else to blame, I think there is a very good chance this is what happened here, but like has already been said, we weren't there, so we really don't know the truth.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

You make a very good point, this is a drone forum, and the focus should be on drones, their pilots, and issues associated with them. The problem I have is the drone was not confirmed and it bothers me that there is a high likelihood that there was no drone involved, only pilot error on the part of the CFI, and that's where challenging the statements of the CFI comes into play. Put aside experience and think of it from the human aspect, with some people if they screw up they immediately look for someone else to blame, I think there is a very good chance this is what happened here, but like has already been said, we weren't there, so we really don't know the truth.

I totally agree and I think that the ideas you have given from the pilots of manned aircraft are valid for this forum also because we all have to live together. I just didn't agree that we shouldn't give any importance to where the drone was. I think it is one of the most important points since manned and unmanned aircraft only coincide in the air when one of them is not complying with the regulations or when they are in the take-off or landing area. That's why I think it's one of the most important facts.

I also don't consider all the news, some of it false, that causes alertness and it's always the drone pilot who's the bad guy. Of course there are bad pilots of manned aircraft. I myself have reported to AESA a plane that almost crashed into my drone well below the 500 feet of minimum altitude it should be flying at. A single-helix plane and I could see his face through the window. As I started an emergency manoeuvre to avoid the impact, I didn't have time to take the registration data. AESA's response was that in small aircraft, since most of them does not have precision instrumentation, it may not fly at the minimum required height. And that's where it all stayed. In case of accident and given the low height I was carrying, I could have lost the drone but 2 people could have died and the welfare of people will always be ahead of a drone that is replaced with money, life cannot be replaced.

If I'm reading the charts correctly and correctly related the chart to a map, he was very close but probably well within 5 miles of Ft Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport. The tallest buildings, shown on the chart (he looks to be level with the top of the tallest) are about 650 feet high (he looks pretty high on the video). I also doubt he contacted the airport using hobby rules. If he were a 107 person, I don't think he would have been stupid enough to post that on YouTube. He would have had to report the close call anyway. It's a mess.

The drone pilot stated, before deleting the video, that he was a 107 pilot and was flying below the maximum height allowed for drones. It is clear that he does not have time to react when he turns and sees that the helicopter is going straight to his drone.

In my opinion, with the data we have, one of them was doing it wrong, as you say? He was flying in CTR? in ATZ? The helicopter was flying below 500 feet?

These questions lead me to think of one thing, pilots of piloted aircraft are really aware that they now share airspace with aircrafts (drones) that are difficult to see from time to time until they are not too close?

 

[Weaponized]

I totally agree and I think that the ideas you have given from the pilots of manned aircraft are valid for this forum also because we all have to live together. I just didn't agree that we shouldn't give any importance to where the drone was. I think it is one of the most important points since manned and unmanned aircraft only coincide in the air when one of them is not complying with the regulations or when they are in the take-off or landing area. That's why I think it's one of the most important facts.

I also don't consider all the news, some of it false, that causes alertness and it's always the drone pilot who's the bad guy. Of course there are bad pilots of manned aircraft. I myself have reported to AESA a plane that almost crashed into my drone well below the 500 feet of minimum altitude it should be flying at. A single-helix plane and I could see his face through the window. As I started an emergency manoeuvre to avoid the impact, I didn't have time to take the registration data. AESA's response was that in small aircraft, since most of them does not have precision instrumentation, it may not fly at the minimum required height. And that's where it all stayed. In case of accident and given the low height I was carrying, I could have lost the drone but 2 people could have died and the welfare of people will always be ahead of a drone that is replaced with money, life cannot be replaced.



The drone pilot stated, before deleting the video, that he was a 107 pilot and was flying below the maximum height allowed for drones. It is clear that he does not have time to react when he turns and sees that the helicopter is going straight to his drone.

In my opinion, with the data we have, one of them was doing it wrong, as you say? He was flying in CTR? in ATZ? The helicopter was flying below 500 feet?

These questions lead me to think of one thing, pilots of piloted aircraft are really aware that they now share airspace with aircrafts (drones) that are difficult to see from time to time until they are not too close?

My house is in class E airspace about 7 miles from a Naval Air Stations class D boundary. There is a LOT of helo traffic over my house and it's a wooded area so I can't see very far, but I can always hear them coming.

Even if you don't see one coming I don't believe for a minute that you couldn't hear it. I can easily hear them even through the trees and likely 1/2 to 1 mile away. Even, news, traffic, and LEO choppers can easily be heard. For this reason I won't launch in an area with too much background noise.

If you can't hear a helicopter at 400' you are either deaf or you just don't care. I think if true that this guy had a part 107 makes this even worse.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

If I'm reading the charts correctly and correctly related the chart to a map, he was very close but probably well within 5 miles of Ft Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport. The tallest buildings, shown on the chart (he looks to be level with the top of the tallest) are about 650 feet high (he looks pretty high on the video). I also doubt he contacted the airport using hobby rules. If he were a 107 person, I don't think he would have been stupid enough to post that on YouTube. He would have had to report the close call anyway. It's a mess.

On reading this again, I felt I should clarify, that I was referring to the above drone video....FAA investigates near drone-helicopter collision off Hollywood

"I don't think he would have been stupid enough to post that on YouTube. " That's a very low bar.
" He would have had to report the close call anyway." You sure about this?

 

[ArrUnTuS]

The terrifying moment a Royal Navy jet flies just 90ft from paraglider at 345mph

 

[R.Perry]

Like they say sh..... happens. Pilot was on a bombing run, most likely focusing on his instruments and or target at the time. He had not been briefed regarding skydivers in the area. To me if I were a skydiver, there is no way I would jump in a known MOA area or even close to it. Thank goodness no one was hit.