Good Reminder Re TFRs

[RWD]

APOLOGIES FOLKS - I had intended to post this to the Mavic Pilots Forum, not this one. I guess this is too basic for most folks here. Sorry about that.... I did re-post over there...


Folks - I came across this internet keyboard warrior's very angry video, and thought it was worth sharing. I expect many of the folks that have been on the Forum for a while and are based in the USA will know this, but I think this could be useful information or reminder for the newer folks (including myself). PLEASE jump in if I have mis-understood things in any way.

For those that don't want to listen to his lengthy rant - the main message is that his buddy was flying over a river filming something, and encountered an FAA Temporary Flight Restriction that came into effect towards the end of his flight (at 1700h). Because of the TFR, the drone initiated an auto-land, and despite his efforts to cancel that auto-land, the drone ended up in the water as he was trying to get it back to his location, and was lost. The guy goes on and on ranting about how this is DJI's fault, and what he is going to do if DJI does that to his drone. Everyone is brave behind a keyboard...

I expect that the recent changes to LANCC in the USA have everyone paying better attention to where/when they fly in relation to No Fly Zones, and to Temporary Flight Restrictions. I have to confess when considering TFRs, I only looked at them using the lens of would they be active when I wanted to TAKE OFF - I had not considered the case where one comes into effect DURING my flight. This video, along with some older threads I found on this Forum suggest that the drone will know about the TFR, and will initiate an auto-land REGARDLESS of where the drone is and as SOON as the TFR comes into effect.

Yes, the argument could be made that instead of an auto-land that the system should give you X minutes to land, restricts your altitude to Y feet, and only allows flight in the Return To Home direction. But that is not what DJI have chosen to do. If I understand correctly, if you drone can be manually switched to ATTI mode (my M2P cannot), you MAY be able to get the drone back to you since ATTI does not use GPS. However there is no saying that GPS is not still used for other non-flight functions, like TFR enforcement.

Anyway, I learned something here, and thought I would share. And like I said, please jump in if I have mis-understood anything here...we'll call it my new-guy mulligan...


Angry Guy Video:

 

[BigAl07]

You need to look at ALL TFR's in your area by visiting the FAA's TFR page. From there you can refine your search down to your state and then you can review each one and see the TIME it's active. Here's one that is "Currently" active on my Search & Rescue scene. Take note it's not a 24/7 TFR but a start & stop time.

9/9585 NOTAM Details

Also keep in mind the time is UTC so you'll have to calculate/convert it to LOCAL time. I'm Eastern Time Zone..

It's 10:22 here but UTC Time is 14:22 (2:22pm). The devil is in the details.

 

[BigAl07]

I watched that YT video and it was 100% Operator Error.... he didn't take the time to either know when the TFR started or he was irresponsible enough to not keep track of time. Either way it's a Self Correcting problem and in no way DJI's fault.

For all we know manned aircraft could have already been inbound to the area for the reason of the TFR....

 

[R.Perry]

BigA, I agree with you in part. The idea that DJI takes total control away from the pilot is irresponsible in my opinion. What if the TFR was in an area with people and the drone hit someone because the pilot had no control of the forced landing? I agree with giving a warning, and telling him to land ASAP, but not removing his control of the aircraft.

You are correct that he was irresponsible by failing to be aware of the TFR. Here again, how much education and training has he had, I would guess not much.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

BigA, I agree with you in part. The idea that DJI takes total control away from the pilot is irresponsible in my opinion. What if the TFR was in an area with people and the drone hit someone because the pilot had no control of the forced landing? I agree with giving a warning, and telling him to land ASAP, but not removing his control of the aircraft.

You are correct that he was irresponsible by failing to be aware of the TFR. Here again, how much education and training has he had, I would guess not much.

Why all drone "pilots" should be required to have a 107, perhaps with an exception to one's own backyard or a park and 25 feet. No room in the NA for ignorance of the rules.

 

[BigAl07]

BigA, I agree with you in part. The idea that DJI takes total control away from the pilot is irresponsible in my opinion. What if the TFR was in an area with people and the drone hit someone because the pilot had no control of the forced landing? I agree with giving a warning, and telling him to land ASAP, but not removing his control of the aircraft.

You are correct that he was irresponsible by failing to be aware of the TFR. Here again, how much education and training has he had, I would guess not much.

If the operator had been responsible and known what he was doing DJI wouldn't need to take control away. At some point people have got to take ownership of operating in the National Airspace System and respect what they are doing. This operator felt like he was above the responsibility of being AWARE.

While I do not like the idea of a Chinese Govt "Taking Control" I don't see an AutoLand as a problem in this instance. Yes it could have been into a crowd of people or a busy highway but the root cause would still be PILOT ERROR! His bad decisions lead to the final outcome.

The only thing I could see that I would recommend is that DJI have a warning a few minutes (not seconds) prior to the action taking place. Odds are the irresponsible operator would still ignore or try to get every last moment of flight out of it but at some point the potential conflict has to be remedied

 

[BigAl07]

Why all drone "pilots" should be required to have a 107, perhaps with an exception to one's own backyard or a park and 25 feet. No room in the NA for ignorance of the rules.

YES!! I think if you're flying a toy drone that can't fly more than 100' high or can't fly more than that distance from you (like the drones in the middle of the mall) that's fine. But if it CAN fly further and higher then it needs the operator to be educated and held accountable as such.

 

[MapMaker53]

Not to mention he was obviously flying BVLOS.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

If the operator had been responsible and known what he was doing DJI wouldn't need to take control away. At some point people have got to take ownership of operating in the National Airspace System and respect what they are doing. This operator felt like he was above the responsibility of being AWARE.

While I do not like the idea of a Chinese Govt "Taking Control" I don't see an AutoLand as a problem in this instance. Yes it could have been into a crowd of people or a busy highway but the root cause would still be PILOT ERROR! His bad decisions lead to the final outcome.

The only thing I could see that I would recommend is that DJI have a warning a few minutes (not seconds) prior to the action taking place. Odds are the irresponsible operator would still ignore or try to get every last moment of flight out of it but at some point the potential conflict has to be remedied

Right on point, Allen. DJI is out of bounds on a lot of issues, but these controls are in place due to stupidity like that displayed in this case.

Did you catch the 6,000 feet distance? He was BLOS. I lost my drone because I'm stupid. DJI, pay me.

 

[R.Perry]

You mean you can't see your drone over a mile away, my personal limit is about 1800 feet and it is a spot in the sky at that.
I'm not debating the fact that it was pilot error, why couldn't they just initiate a RTH, that would have solved the problem.
Do people fly BLOS, sure they do, all the time, problem is if you lose your display, RTH is all you have left, and that isn't good.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

You mean you can't see your drone over a mile away, my personal limit is about 1800 feet and it is a spot in the sky at that.
I'm not debating the fact that it was pilot error, why couldn't they just initiate a RTH, that would have solved the problem.
Do people fly BLOS, sure they do, all the time, problem is if you lose your display, RTH is all you have left, and that isn't good.

"Do people fly BLOS, sure they do, all the time"
Well, I never had the need to...

 

[RWD]

Why all drone "pilots" should be required to have a 107, perhaps with an exception to one's own backyard or a park and 25 feet. No room in the NA for ignorance of the rules.

Luis - with any luck the certification test that the FAA is supposed to be putting in place for recreational fliers will help (at least a bit). Not sure if there is any clarity on when they hope to have that in place.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Luis - with any luck the certification test that the FAA is supposed to be putting in place for recreational fliers will help (at least a bit). Not sure if there is any clarity on when they hope to have that in place.

Color me skeptic...FAA's record of going after 107 violations sucks, and they are going to do better with hobbyists?

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

The basic problem is defining who is a hobbyist, the kid who got one for Xmas and just wants to fly on his backyard and the park, or the thousands of schmoes who really just want to shoot commercial quality videos, for sale or YouTube and try to skirt 107 regulations. It's a mistake to lump both in the hobby class and exclude them from regs.

If we need a 107, they should too.

Create an exemption for the kid scenario above... and force everyone else who wants to play in the NAS, like the rocket scientist whose flight started this thread, get a 107 and quit fooling around.

I'm sick & tired of the "oh, I didn't know I couldn't do that, I'm just a hobbyist"... make 'em all get 107s then all we need to hear is "Surrender your certificate, please, go play in the park, keep it under 25 feet and have a nice day."

No one who lacks the necessary airspace awareness required from any private pilot should be permitted to operate in the NAS. Wheew, that felt gooood.

 

[AH-1G]

No one who lacks the necessary airspace awareness required from any private pilot should be permitted to operate in the NAS. Wheew, that felt gooood.

???

 

[PatR]

No one who lacks the necessary airspace awareness required from any private pilot should be permitted to operate in the NAS. Wheew, that felt gooood.

Except my Mother-in-Law, who’s standard responses to anything that went wrong are “I didn’t do it, It wasn’t my fault, Nobody told ME, and I didn’t know.”...

 

[Free2Fly]

Right on point, Allen. DJI is out of bounds on a lot of issues, but these controls are in place due to stupidity like that displayed in this case.

Did you catch the 6,000 feet distance? He was BLOS. I lost my drone because I'm stupid. DJI, pay me.

Well said.