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Anyone flying a Compliant Aircraft

I do air quality control, so we have developed some sensors that we fly with. But we also do a lot of mapping, photogrammetry, vegetation analysis etc. Basically anything we can think to use a UAV for. I did a "spot light" article with them awhile back.

Nik
 
That's unfortunate for Canada for now. The FAA started out that way in 2014 with the 333 exemptions allowing the pilot to only fly the requested airframe and stated it in the exemption.

By the time they put together the part 107 in 2016 it was non specific.
 
In Canada we have had the compliant aircraft regulations for some time. We have been able to hold a SFOC for a few years without the compliant aircraft but seems TC is pushing any new operations to have compliant aircraft and if we replace any of our existing aircraft they may need to be compliant.
I see the point though as the quality of material and design may jeopardize safety for certain missions.
 
Thanks for the link!

I'm supposed to trust a government who can't even operate a payroll system, and Transport Canada "officials" (students) who are approved a SFOC for a flight in Toronto, but told me I couldn't take off or land in a built up area, but he approved my SFOC, and was serious that I could not take off or land in a built up area.

I can understand that drones like DJI has are not on the list. Too many updates and constant changes and not a lot of quality control, but are affordable and safe, assuming you make it through the break-in period, and turn off the updates.

TC shouldn't be allowed to have a specific vendor list without giving reasons why some of the more popular and affordable drones are not on the list. I have never seen a listing of commercial drone accidents. I have spoken with Nav Canada and they were unaware of any commercial drone accidents in the Toronto area, as of last fall. To date my Phantom 4 has not had any control-ability issues.
 
Thanks for the link!

I'm supposed to trust a government who can't even operate a payroll system, and Transport Canada "officials" (students) who are approved a SFOC for a flight in Toronto, but told me I couldn't take off or land in a built up area, but he approved my SFOC, and was serious that I could not take off or land in a built up area.

I can understand that drones like DJI has are not on the list. Too many updates and constant changes and not a lot of quality control, but are affordable and safe, assuming you make it through the break-in period, and turn off the updates.

TC shouldn't be allowed to have a specific vendor list without giving reasons why some of the more popular and affordable drones are not on the list. I have never seen a listing of commercial drone accidents. I have spoken with Nav Canada and they were unaware of any commercial drone accidents in the Toronto area, as of last fall. To date my Phantom 4 has not had any control-ability issues.

I hear your frustration but I have to say that they have been straight forward with me.
Not sure what the builtup area issue is for you as that is a big part of why you need the SFOC.
I know they are crazy busy as soon as spring hits and so the slow response times and might be possible for an error to get through. I would call them and the appropriate questions and get it resolved.

All drone manufacturers can send in the required info about the aircraft and system to get on the "" compliant list", seems it might be problem to cover all the required information for them.
I don't think DJI's manual is even good enough.
I think specs like Vne etc. are nowhere to be found.
Specific maintenance requirements, maximum payload, etc. can't get these from them.
So I don't blame them for trying to protect the aviation industry , other wise what would stop people from flying inferior aircraft and systems.
I do wish that in near future some manufacturers are able to produce compliant aircraft and systems that are bit more affordable.
Also would like to know the specifics of what is required to be compliant. It's pretty grey unless you buy the 7 books from ASME.
 
I hear your frustration but I have to say that they have been straight forward with me.
Not sure what the builtup area issue is for you as that is a big part of why you need the SFOC.
I know they are crazy busy as soon as spring hits and so the slow response times and might be possible for an error to get through. I would call them and the appropriate questions and get it resolved.

All drone manufacturers can send in the required info about the aircraft and system to get on the "" compliant list", seems it might be problem to cover all the required information for them.
I don't think DJI's manual is even good enough.
I think specs like Vne etc. are nowhere to be found.
Specific maintenance requirements, maximum payload, etc. can't get these from them.
So I don't blame them for trying to protect the aviation industry , other wise what would stop people from flying inferior aircraft and systems.
I do wish that in near future some manufacturers are able to produce compliant aircraft and systems that are bit more affordable.
Also would like to know the specifics of what is required to be compliant. It's pretty grey unless you buy the 7 books from ASME.

I guess I'm looking at it from a different aspect. TC has been all over the map about what they consider a "safe" or non dangerous weight. They now have a category ranging from 250g to 35kg. As I said in more than one letter to TC, drop a 250g bag of potatoes on your friends head. Drop a 1.8kg bag of potatoes on your friends head. Chances are, they will still be your friend. Drop a 35kg bag of potatoes on your friends head and they will probably be dead. They still haven't made the regulation; "Do not fly within 2km range of where first responders are working." In their public document they say: "Don't interfere with first responders, but the actual regulation says: "Don't fly over or within the perimeter of where first responders are working."

For doing simple aerial photography with an integrated camera, so no actual payload and a drone weight of less than 2kg should be regarded as a safe, or should I say safer than as me the drone operator is as I risk getting hit by a completely unregulated ebike.

I did eventually get my standing restricted complex SFOC. It is sad that TC is spending their time in having people write 21 page manuals, and having their staff read through and analyze them, rather than getting retailers to register a drone at point of purchase, make sure people know how to operate their drone and follow a specific approved procedure, register the day, time, drone manufacturer and location of their flight. With the amount of date the drone captures, have people submit their flight data and KML file as proof of safe operation every 30 days. Have a TC official out in the industry and forums watching and listening to what is going on.

I don't know the Vne of my Phantom 4, but I also don't think TC knows the MTTF of drone components, with the most dangerous being firmware updates or software updates and the OPP having one of their drones fly off completely out of control after an update. There is no maintenance manual for the Phantom 4 because there is nothing to maintain. It would be nice to know the MTTF of the motors, or have the "intelligent" battery be smart enough to not shut itself off in mid flight because 1 battery cell goes low in power. That is more a case of operator awareness in being aware of their equipment than it is maintenance. Other than that, I submit evidence to the contrary; For the total number of hours flown, and the reported number of incidents, there is little to no risk to public safety or security for an affordable drone like the Phantom 4 or similar class and weight of drone.

Just because TC has a list of drones they consider "safe" does not mean there are not a lot of other drones that are also safe.
 
No DJI in commercial work in Canada ?
DJI can be used in commercial ops.... for now under restricted category of SFOC.
They have indicated they are releasing new laws this year that may affect new commercial operations.
Previous SFOC holders will be grandfathered in with existing aircraft( including DJI)
What they actually do I don't know, but the wording from the Canada Gazette is such that they want operators flying "compliant" aircraft.
 
DJI can be used in commercial ops.... for now under restricted category of SFOC.
They have indicated they are releasing new laws this year that may affect new commercial operations.
Previous SFOC holders will be grandfathered in with existing aircraft( including DJI)
What they actually do I don't know, but the wording from the Canada Gazette is such that they want operators flying "compliant" aircraft.
Thank you.
 
I guess I'm looking at it from a different aspect. TC has been all over the map about what they consider a "safe" or non dangerous weight. They now have a category ranging from 250g to 35kg. As I said in more than one letter to TC, drop a 250g bag of potatoes on your friends head. Drop a 1.8kg bag of potatoes on your friends head. Chances are, they will still be your friend. Drop a 35kg bag of potatoes on your friends head and they will probably be dead. They still haven't made the regulation; "Do not fly within 2km range of where first responders are working." In their public document they say: "Don't interfere with first responders, but the actual regulation says: "Don't fly over or within the perimeter of where first responders are working."

For doing simple aerial photography with an integrated camera, so no actual payload and a drone weight of less than 2kg should be regarded as a safe, or should I say safer than as me the drone operator is as I risk getting hit by a completely unregulated ebike.

I did eventually get my standing restricted complex SFOC. It is sad that TC is spending their time in having people write 21 page manuals, and having their staff read through and analyze them, rather than getting retailers to register a drone at point of purchase, make sure people know how to operate their drone and follow a specific approved procedure, register the day, time, drone manufacturer and location of their flight. With the amount of date the drone captures, have people submit their flight data and KML file as proof of safe operation every 30 days. Have a TC official out in the industry and forums watching and listening to what is going on.

I don't know the Vne of my Phantom 4, but I also don't think TC knows the MTTF of drone components, with the most dangerous being firmware updates or software updates and the OPP having one of their drones fly off completely out of control after an update. There is no maintenance manual for the Phantom 4 because there is nothing to maintain. It would be nice to know the MTTF of the motors, or have the "intelligent" battery be smart enough to not shut itself off in mid flight because 1 battery cell goes low in power. That is more a case of operator awareness in being aware of their equipment than it is maintenance. Other than that, I submit evidence to the contrary; For the total number of hours flown, and the reported number of incidents, there is little to no risk to public safety or security for an affordable drone like the Phantom 4 or similar class and weight of drone.

Just because TC has a list of drones they consider "safe" does not mean there are not a lot of other drones that are also safe.

Some great points.
They and the rest of the ICAO organizations have been scrambling since the small quadcopter use has gone ballistic.
I agree with you about the weight issue, seems they don't have it right yet.
Since the interim order in July 2017, they have a change of rules from 250g to 1kg and 1kg to 25kg. They don't say what the rules are for 25kg to 35kg though.
One thing about the weight though. It's about energy not just weight. So , 1.8 kg impacting something at 40mph as opposed to 5mph is going to hurt much more.
Plus carbon fiber blades could alone cause a hurt.
I would love to know the MTTF of the motors or have a procedure to determine possible issues. eg. current draw begins to rise or temperature increases ( under a test condition).
So are these the type of information that is provided on the "compliant " aircraft?
This is really what I would like to know... What makes the complaint aircraft compliant
 
Some great points.
They and the rest of the ICAO organizations have been scrambling since the small quadcopter use has gone ballistic.
I agree with you about the weight issue, seems they don't have it right yet.
Since the interim order in July 2017, they have a change of rules from 250g to 1kg and 1kg to 25kg. They don't say what the rules are for 25kg to 35kg though.
One thing about the weight though. It's about energy not just weight. So , 1.8 kg impacting something at 40mph as opposed to 5mph is going to hurt much more.
Plus carbon fiber blades could alone cause a hurt.
I would love to know the MTTF of the motors or have a procedure to determine possible issues. eg. current draw begins to rise or temperature increases ( under a test condition).
So are these the type of information that is provided on the "compliant " aircraft?
This is really what I would like to know... What makes the complaint aircraft compliant

Hey Jack, we should go for coffee if you're in the southern Ontario area!

Yes it is not just weight, but potential energy. Maybe I should apply for a grant to do testing and see the results from dropping a 1.8kg drone from 300 feet. As I have stated in my many letters to TC, that would be scientific data from which to base a regulation. Carbon fiber blades in my opinion only make a difference if they are spinning on impact, but again some "Myth Buster" data would sure help give an answer.

I think the difference between "complaint" and DJI is in the manufacturers willingness and assistance to provide answers through testing to ideas and specifics similar to the issues in this thread.

I have tested the DJI flight restriction in a limited way. I set up my drone in a yellow zone at the edge of a restricted (red) zone, and was able to get the drone motors started. (No props were installed on the drone, and photo verification was used) I then took the drone inside the restricted zone and confirm the motors would not start. My next step is to contact the ATC and discuss how I can test this out in real world but safety first method. Tether the drone by a 50 foot rope and fly inside the restricted zone to see if I can maintain the ability to prevent the drone from landing without control, or move it before it lands, should a legally planned flight pass by the edge of a restricted zone. I have been told that if you take off from outside the yellow zone, and then enter the yellow zone, you will not be able to stop it from landing unless you get out of the yellow zone as fast as possible. The solution I've been told is you must launch from within the yellow zone and then you will be ok.

To my mind, the above is an unsafe flying situation and is a pilot is unaware of this supposed "safety" measure, the pilot could find his drone auto landing in a tree or on a busy roadway. This is a manufacturers way of trying to appease local governments that their product is safe, when in fact it is dangerously unsafe and removes a pilots ability to control their aircraft.

If an operator has the ability to know and document this type of situation, then it is my opinion that they should be able to fly their aircraft, regardless of TC "approved" list.

In short, in my opinion it is a combination of politics and regulation that dictates the "approved" drone list, and has not a lot to do with actual "safety", just the law has little to do with what is right, only what someone can prove withing the regulations. Many a woman has been killed by a boyfriend or husband, and the police say; "There is nothing we can do until they actually try to kill you." The approved drone list is an inverse example of this concept, and in my opinion no one should feel particularly safe or protected.

To point: An amateur drone operator can fly 5.5km from an airport, but a commercial operator must be 9km from an airport, currently the law in Canada. A commercial operator can under a SFOC fly closer than that, but then does an amateur operator know or care about airspace? Does an amateur know when a small local airport is class D or class E airspace, or even know what the difference is in all this stuff? Versus the risk of a MTTF of a UAV motor or Vne?

I understand the need for safety, and that the aviation world is (or has been) vigilant in safety, or wants to be seen in that light. I can recall two incidents involving Canadian aircraft in San Francisco. The real danger is in pilot operation more that aircraft compliance. TC is making people pay a lot of money for an air vehicle when the real danger may be in the pilot operating that vehicle.

Show me the evidence!
 

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