Autonomous flying software: what do you use?

[adm_geomatics]

You've quoted my post on that rant reply... I didn't suggest any of what you're indicating. Actually, my post was more in line with your previous comments. The apps used with sUAV is autonomous and the sUAV has automation procedures within FW.

In short... autonomously is operating without pilot intervention running programs and using onboard electronics & sensors.

That wasn't a rant (please) but a reflection of the mindset of what is being said. If a human has to program it then it is not autonomous. Drones in a box are not even there. At most a farmer would tell it "Over here." if it was autonomous. I apologize if it offended you.

 

[dougcjohn]

That wasn't a rant (please) but a reflection of the mindset of what is being said. If a human has to program it then it is not autonomous. Drones in a box are not even there. At most a farmer would tell it "Over here." if it was autonomous. I apologize if it offended you.

I'd agree.. all based on programming and the hardware design to utilize... where in my post is that in disagreement? No offense, just didn't see a contrast.

Yep, we also programmed cattle too! Cats are a little more challenge... like Wives!

 

[adm_geomatics]

You've quoted my post on that rant reply... I didn't suggest any of what you're indicating. Actually, my post was more in line with your previous comments. The apps used with sUAV is autonomous and the sUAV has automation procedures within FW.

In short... autonomously is operating without pilot intervention running programs and using onboard electronics & sensors.

In my opinion sUAVs are automated, they carry out automated missions but still rely on human operators.

I guess this part and the rest was about things that don't exist yet. Nothing operates without some sort of human interaction. I guess my perception that the ability to hit go and have the drone collect 5 different kinds of missions while it is capable of reacting to pretty much every obstacle and environmental condition then land itself as being autonomous isn't correct, but I feel like that's about as close as anything we have is.

 

[dougcjohn]

I guess this part and the rest was about things that don't exist yet. Nothing operates without some sort of human interaction. I guess my perception that the ability to hit go and have the drone collect 5 different kinds of missions while it is capable of reacting to pretty much every obstacle and environmental condition then land itself as being autonomous isn't correct, but I feel like that's about as close as anything we have is.

That sentence is accurate, although the following sentence of autonomous is too. Unless the hardware has a program to run... in the form of Firmware or Uploaded Program, it's just hardware, that can be turned on & off. The IC circuits may or may not activate other circuits (motors, etc) depending on the design. That hardware can simply take input (human,etc) commands or at a higher level process programs. An RC Heli responds to inputs without programming... programming of ratios, mixes, etc is in the Radio normally held in Hand.

I view "automated" as program instruction modules triggered by event or interaction, and "autonomous" as a processing environment including sensors, processors, drive systems, memory, programs that can utilize logical sequential or matrix coding capable to process instructions with multiple decission outcomes predefined in FW or Uploaded Program variables. My 1st post: can have automated alone, although autonomous includes automated, responding to the autonomous programming for some operations.

 

[adm_geomatics]

That sentence is accurate, although the following sentence of autonomous is too. Unless the hardware has a program to run... in the form of Firmware or Uploaded Program, it's just hardware, that can be turned on & off. The IC circuits may or may not activate other circuits (motors, etc) depending on the design. That hardware can simply take input (human,etc) commands or at a higher level process programs. An RC Heli responds to inputs without programming... programming of ratios, mixes, etc is in the Radio normally held in Hand.

I view "automated" as program instruction modules triggered by event or interaction, and "autonomous" as a processing environment including sensors, processors, drive systems, memory, programs that can utilize logical sequential or matrix coding capable to process instructions with multiple decission outcomes predefined in FW or Uploaded Program variables. My 1st post: can have automated alone, although autonomous includes automated, responding to the autonomous programming for some operations.

I totally agree with that explanation and I think we have that technology and my point was that there is autonomy that can exist with human interaction and not the definition that it should be completely separate like others might have proposed. My perception is that automation is when the machine just does what it does with no decision making process. Any time there is a reaction to an outside stimulus or condition to change behaviour (not initiated directly by a human) and still accomplishes the end goal is a form of autonomy. Understand that I am not speaking only to you but the entire discussion of the definition that started before you joined.

 

[JimD]

What does any of that have to do with modern drones and code that is completely different that even what was back in the 90's? So you believe that they aren't making any decisions based on anything like the altimeter, vision or OA sensors and that none of that has anything to do with the firmware and software? I'll just disagree that when a machine is making decisions like that based on no input from the user then that is autonomous. Despite how crude it may seem even a camera on Auto mode is making decisions.

If you call equations decisions then maybe you’re right but they’re not making decisions anything beyond than what the equations tell them to do.
And the equations are exactly the same
If you doubt that go look at the PX4 for Code and you’ll see all the equations are exactly the same.

 

[R.Perry]

So what does Mr Webster have to say.
1a: having the right or power of self-government an autonomous territory
b: undertaken or carried on without outside control : SELF-CONTAINED an autonomous school system
2a: existing or capable of existing independently an autonomous zooid
b: responding, reacting, or developing independently of the whole an autonomous growth

Actually based on that definition we have no autonomous hardware. Someone needs to turn the machine on, program it to do a certain task, and then allow it to perform that task.

One thing I know about computers, the bottom line is it only understands two things, a 1 or a 0, that means there is no grey area in my way of thinking. You may be able to program certain levels of logic in, but it doesn't think for itself or make decisions it hasn't been programed to.

So I guess my opinion was wrong because at this point as far as I know someone needs to flip the switch and tell it to go to work, and that seems to me is automation.

 

[dougcjohn]

Assuming it's ON, once programmed... as in Uploaded file mission... from there it's autonomous.

The "craft" is not autonomous, the operation or mission the craft performs is autonomous.

 

[R.Perry]

Assuming it's ON, once programmed... as in Uploaded file mission... from there it's autonomous.

The "craft" is not autonomous, the operation or mission the craft performs is autonomous.

The key here is once programmed, a computer isn't capable of programming itself.
As for the operation, not exactly. Let's take mapping for instance. The pilot needs to tell it to start the mission.
On large mappings he needs to tell it to RTH to change batteries, and it can't change it's own batteries.
So without human input it isn't going to fly the mission.
My computers does automatic updates, they are not autonomous updates because someone had to create the updates, send them to me, and I had to authorize the updates, again that is automation.
Show us a system robotic or other wise that is truly capable of performing a task without any human intervention.

Aviation today has incredible abilities, however there is always a human that begins the flight or navigation process. At this point it seems AI is in reality a collections of "what if" programmed logic, not independent decision making.

If you think about it, the "what if" is based on human logic, so it is merely mimicking human logic.

 

[dougcjohn]

The essence is how it flies the mission.
It's referred to as autonomous throughout industry and in my view it's autonomous.
Autonomous is not equivalent to AI, there can be a mix but they're seperate.

The definition I found that pertained to Autonomous Drone was able to "take-off, perform mission, and return & land" without PIC intervention during the flight was autonomous flight.

The drill down of total self operation of any hardware simply doesn't exist... there is always a human element somewhere along the path. The statement of autonomous craft, as self operation I don't intermix with autonomous flight missions. From the startup, removing drone from case, inserting battery, powering up craft & radio, selecting & uploading program, and phase to initialize mission isn't autonomous with any craft or really any man made hardware.

Autonomous flight indicates PIC is not involved during the mission. Prep, program, etc prior and post of flight isn't considered part of the flight. Once initialized, the programming variables, electronics and FW level of sophistication determines the level of autonomous capabilities... but if not interacting from launch to landing, it's autonomous. You can't have autonomous without automation with any hardware & FW.

 

[R.Perry]

Very good points, and I tend to agree in part. During a mapping mission once the pilot sends the drone on it's way it seems to be autonomous. I do understand your point, so I guess we are down to lexical semantics.

 

[adm_geomatics]

lexical

Now there's a word you don't hear every day, lol. I'll call my perception Autonomy v0.0.1 then.