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"Drone pilot can't offer mapping without North Carolina surveyor's license, court says"
- Thread starter Kristina Fowler
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Sadly, it is being argued that it is not a 1st amendment issue but a surveying issue that a license is required to do.
From what I gather about it, by this reasoning, the surveyor themself needs to fly the mission and process the results. If a lowly drone pilot cannot be entrusted to collect data without a PLS, then the surveyor needs to get a 107.
If the surveyors I know are any gauge, it would be a pretty sad and dangerous situation very fast. They can't be bothered to learn anything beyond what they were taught in school.
If the surveyors I know are any gauge, it would be a pretty sad and dangerous situation very fast. They can't be bothered to learn anything beyond what they were taught in school.
adm_geomatics
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Just work under the supervision of a licensed professional then. The Photogrammetrists need to go after the Surveyors and let them know they can't perform any photogrammetry without a license... See how they like it. IMO it needs to be defined exactly what end use cases are applicable. Providing data to a private land owner or construction company should NOT be part of this. The work I do is for GIS, Surveying and AEC industries and only two of those requires sub-3cm accuracy but 4 of the 5 uses cases get reviewed and stamped by a PLS. Most medium to large Contractors have their own inhouse Pilots and VDC Teams which process their data. What does this do to cloud processing solutions providers? Do they have to have a licensed Surveyor or Photogrammetrist QC everything? I agree there should be more regulation to providing commercial data where contracts are involved but that is already happening in the education system and those of us who have been doing this for almost 10 years and the ones teaching.
I've been doing my own project-specific total station and RTK survey work for over thirty years and acquired the drone tools in more recent years. I'm not a surveyor but would be willing to become a RPLS if that were within reach. However, the requirements imposed by my State regulatory agency make that extremely difficult; especially at this point in life where I don't have too many years left in my profession. When I have a project that legally requires an engineer or surveyor stamp, I hire a PE or RPLS and I work under their supervision. That works great on larger projects that are lucrative enough for those guys to put time into. However, it's difficult to find a surveyor for the small, unregulated tasks that I frequently work on and that's becoming more of a problem as the RPLSs that I work with retire with not enough new guys coming in behind them to fill the demand. Even the professional surveyors I work with recognize this dilemma.
I see the potential problem down the road as the RPLS requirement being an all or nothing issue if other states follow NC. Either you're an RPLS or you're not. And, if you're not, the agencies would restrict you from doing any sort or mapping work no matter how trivial it is (perhaps what we now have in NC?). I have zero interest in performing land boundary surveys (which are complicated and carry a lot of risk) or river surveys for hydraulic model mapping (as required by FEMA). But, simple aerial imagery or RTK drone topo mapping tasks of small parcels for projects are low risk and typically don't need to meet any sort of National Mapping Accuracy standard for purposes of those projects. I'd like to see some sort of tiered surveying certification that let's the State regulators keep a finger on things without being heavy handed and allow simple projects to be completed where they don't need the expertise of an RPLS. Similar to us obtaining our Part 107 certifications for unmanned flight or as with a state issued drivers license vs. a CDL. It could even be set up to create a track for guys to work up to obtaining full fledged RPLS license. The water and wastewater treatment industries (for both public and private) have great State certification programs that allow people to start out at a Class D level and work up to a Class A level with experience and education. I've known several young guys that start out as Class D or C operators working independently for small rural towns or small, very basic industrial treatment plants to gain experience. Why couldn't the surveying profession have something similar if they are so concerned with non-RPLS drone pilots doing mapping or aerial imagery?
I see the potential problem down the road as the RPLS requirement being an all or nothing issue if other states follow NC. Either you're an RPLS or you're not. And, if you're not, the agencies would restrict you from doing any sort or mapping work no matter how trivial it is (perhaps what we now have in NC?). I have zero interest in performing land boundary surveys (which are complicated and carry a lot of risk) or river surveys for hydraulic model mapping (as required by FEMA). But, simple aerial imagery or RTK drone topo mapping tasks of small parcels for projects are low risk and typically don't need to meet any sort of National Mapping Accuracy standard for purposes of those projects. I'd like to see some sort of tiered surveying certification that let's the State regulators keep a finger on things without being heavy handed and allow simple projects to be completed where they don't need the expertise of an RPLS. Similar to us obtaining our Part 107 certifications for unmanned flight or as with a state issued drivers license vs. a CDL. It could even be set up to create a track for guys to work up to obtaining full fledged RPLS license. The water and wastewater treatment industries (for both public and private) have great State certification programs that allow people to start out at a Class D level and work up to a Class A level with experience and education. I've known several young guys that start out as Class D or C operators working independently for small rural towns or small, very basic industrial treatment plants to gain experience. Why couldn't the surveying profession have something similar if they are so concerned with non-RPLS drone pilots doing mapping or aerial imagery?
I would appreciate some clarity on use-case scenarios or proper language to outline what was necessary and what is not to meet these new regulations.
I regularly fly volunteer mapping missions for local conservation areas documenting shoreline erosion and reclamation efforts. No precision location data required, just clean, clear updated maps to compare before and after.
If I had to get a stamp made that said that these photographs do not meet surveyor standards of accuracy and are only to be used for monitoring - something like that should be sufficient to meet regulations.
As usual, it's disappointing when politicians get involved in making decisions in areas they know little about and seem easily swayed by industry professionals looking to lock in their corners and keep all others out.
I regularly fly volunteer mapping missions for local conservation areas documenting shoreline erosion and reclamation efforts. No precision location data required, just clean, clear updated maps to compare before and after.
If I had to get a stamp made that said that these photographs do not meet surveyor standards of accuracy and are only to be used for monitoring - something like that should be sufficient to meet regulations.
As usual, it's disappointing when politicians get involved in making decisions in areas they know little about and seem easily swayed by industry professionals looking to lock in their corners and keep all others out.
I view this from both sides. I agree with admgeo 100%. I also see the need that states need to adapt to the times and define what a surveyor must do and what can be done by drone mappers.
But, I have watched way too many drone mappers come to this site where they already have agreed to map for a client and have zero clue on what they are doing. They are the ones doing a disservice to the drone mappers that actually are going to school and getting trained on the proper way to do things.
Standards are needed though. Think how many times someone has asked on this forum for help with some aspect of mapping where they are already providing services, and even have a client waiting on data. This does not help our industry.
I have helped someone providing a client with data where elevations were essential and had no idea of any GIS terms, let alone the ability to apply them to their project.
But, I have watched way too many drone mappers come to this site where they already have agreed to map for a client and have zero clue on what they are doing. They are the ones doing a disservice to the drone mappers that actually are going to school and getting trained on the proper way to do things.
Standards are needed though. Think how many times someone has asked on this forum for help with some aspect of mapping where they are already providing services, and even have a client waiting on data. This does not help our industry.
I have helped someone providing a client with data where elevations were essential and had no idea of any GIS terms, let alone the ability to apply them to their project.
adm_geomatics
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I agree either with what you are saying or along the same lines that there should be a add-on to the Part 107 that allows for the more technical work... and Land Surveying needs to be an option taught in high school. I am certain that photogrammetry will at some point but Surveying needs to be brought back to prominence.
I retire in around 4 years. I will be going back to school to start the long process of becoming a NJ PLS.
While I make maps and such for my employer, I would really like to be able to do this for clients.
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