Enforcement Responsibilities ?

[mwkelly109]

Just curious what the general consensus is toward reporting unauthorized (illegal?) drone operations.

I work for large university. From time to time I see companies operating their UAS with no registration number on the aircraft and above or near pedestrians. In each instance this has been in class C airspace.

Just kind of bothers me that people disregard regs and pose a threat to the safety of others, when the rest of us have taken the time and effort to do things according to Hoyle.

Seems pointless to approach them unless any illegal or unauthorized activity will be reported to the FAA. Otherwise it would just end up in a pissing contest and our PR department would probably complain to management (i.e. I get termed)

 

[AH-1G]

It too bothers me when these type of things happen. A friend of mine from the FAA mentioned "it would go to the bottom of their list to investigate, unless it's endangering the public".
I would let it go.

 

[2lowterrain]

Just curious what the general consensus is toward reporting unauthorized (illegal?) drone operations.

I work for large university. From time to time I see companies operating their UAS with no registration number on the aircraft and above or near pedestrians. In each instance this has been in class C airspace.

Just kind of bothers me that people disregard regs and pose a threat to the safety of others, when the rest of us have taken the time and effort to do things according to Hoyle.

Seems pointless to approach them unless any illegal or unauthorized activity will be reported to the FAA. Otherwise it would just end up in a pissing contest and our PR department would probably complain to management (i.e. I get termed)

I almost sucked one in the left engine flying a Hawker (mid-size business jet) coming out of Van Nuy’s a few years ago, so PLEASE call the FSDO!

 

[2lowterrain]

It too bothers me when these type of things happen. A friend of mine from the FAA mentioned "it would go to the bottom of their list to investigate, unless it's endangering the public".
I would let it go.

Sounds about right ?

 

[AH-1G]

I almost sucked one in the left engine flying a Hawker (mid-size business jet) coming out of Van Nuy’s a few years ago, so PLEASE call the FSDO!

I took this photo a couple days ago, a Hawker landing at X04. Made a digital painting of it
Here's one I flew right seat couple of months ago out of ORL.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Just curious what the general consensus is toward reporting unauthorized (illegal?) drone operations.

I work for large university. From time to time I see companies operating their UAS with no registration number on the aircraft and above or near pedestrians. In each instance this has been in class C airspace.

Just kind of bothers me that people disregard regs and pose a threat to the safety of others, when the rest of us have taken the time and effort to do things according to Hoyle.

Seems pointless to approach them unless any illegal or unauthorized activity will be reported to the FAA. Otherwise it would just end up in a pissing contest and our PR department would probably complain to management (i.e. I get termed)

You said " pose a threat to the safety of others," then you should report. If we don't report we are part of the problem. Not sure what you mean by "getting termed." Is it the university policy to ignore the law? I was a police chief at a college and my president would never stand for me or the officers ignoring any laws.

 

[2lowterrain]

I took this photo a couple days ago, a Hawker landing at X04. Made a digital painting of itView attachment 2181
Here's one I flew right seat couple of months ago out of ORL.

VERY COOL PIC! Good Ole Hawkers, The last of the mechanical Beast! Now I get to play with Drones....and NOT in KTEB!lol

 

[Ghost]

I generally try to mind my own business unless there is an imminent threat to human life or critical infrastructure. Then it would be a call to the local authority in hopes of an immediate response. A call to the FAA may take a while. jes my .o2

 

[BigAl07]

You said " pose a threat to the safety of others," then you should report. If we don't report we are part of the problem. Not sure what you mean by "getting termed." Is it the university policy to ignore the law? I was a police chief at a college and my president would never stand for me or the officers ignoring any laws.

DITTO!

If they are busting the regs and you see it then report it. If it's reported to the FSDO, if it can be tracked, and it violates the Regs it will get investigated. Now if it's a one-time thing and there's no way to verify who they are or what they did then it may not get much traction.

 

[AH-1G]

Just curious what the general consensus is toward reporting unauthorized (illegal?) drone operations.

I work for large university. From time to time I see companies operating their UAS with no registration number on the aircraft and above or near pedestrians. In each instance this has been in class C airspace.

Seems pointless to approach them unless any illegal or unauthorized activity will be reported to the FAA. Otherwise it would just end up in a pissing contest and our PR department would probably complain to management (i.e. I get termed)

If you see this happening, you should/must have proof of the event, best is to have video and pics of these violations, especially showing pilot in command. This way FAA has evidence not just hearsay.

 

[Fred Garvin]

I feel it’s a professional responsibility to report these activities. Part of being a licensed drone operator. Just as an airline pilot is obligated to report violations, unsafe behavior; a doctor is obligated to report instances of malpractice; being a professional comes with, sometimes uncomfortable, responsibility.

If you see it, gather as much information as you can to help the FAA. Give them something to go on. Any identifying information is extremely helpful. Just reporting “a guy flying a drone here” doesn’t give them anything they can readily work with. They need details.

However, this does not include confrontation. Leave that to the authorities.

(This is per our local FAA Rep, conversation during January 2020 AUVSI Lonestar Chapter meeting)

 

[mwkelly109]

You said " pose a threat to the safety of others," then you should report. If we don't report we are part of the problem. Not sure what you mean by "getting termed." Is it the university policy to ignore the law? I was a police chief at a college and my president would never stand for me or the officers ignoring any laws.

Getting termed = fired. Pretty much don't ask, don't tell, s the unwritten policy. And above all don't make waves.

 

[Earthman]

Be careful. “Flying over people” is different from flying in the vicinity of and flying near people.

The FAA defines and limits “flying over people“ as flying literally, directly over some part of their body, which is illegal. Flying in the vicinity of and flying near people is technically legal but would be considered reckless by most if you were to lose control and hit someone who was not directly under the UAV. Reckless flying is illegal, so you as PIC don’t need to be flying directly over someone to be bending or breaking the rules.

I think it’s difficult for you as PIC and anyone else observing to tell if the UAV is flying directly over people unless the UAV is very close to them - like maybe within 10-ft of them. About the only way to tell if you are directly over someone or a particular point on the ground is to look straight down with the camera, and even then there is no accurate way of knowing if the camera is actually looking straight down.

Bottom line, flying over people is difficult to prove and enforce.

Having said the above, as PIC you are required to fly safely at all times, and you are responsible and liable for your decisions and actions, including crashing. You have to plan your flight and fly so you can crash safely.

If you see someone breaking the rules and the PIC looks reasonable, it may not hurt to have a conversation with them about the rules, safety, and the impact that their actions have on the rest of us. Otherwise, report them.

Others will regulate us if we don’t regulate ourselves and our community. It may already be too late.

 

[Mavic Mac]

Be careful. “Flying over people” is different from flying in the vicinity of and flying near people.

The FAA defines and limits “flying over people“ as flying literally, directly over some part of their body, which is illegal. Flying in the vicinity of and flying near people is technically legal but would be considered reckless by most if you were to lose control and hit someone who was not directly under the UAV. Reckless flying is illegal, so you as PIC don’t need to be flying directly over someone to be bending or breaking the rules.

I think it’s difficult for you as PIC and anyone else observing to tell if the UAV is flying directly over people unless the UAV is very close to them - like maybe within 10-ft of them. About the only way to tell if you are directly over someone or a particular point on the ground is to look straight down with the camera, and even then there is no accurate way of knowing if the camera is actually looking straight down.

Bottom line, flying over people is difficult to prove and enforce.

Having said the above, as PIC you are required to fly safely at all times, and you are responsible and liable for your decisions and actions, including crashing. You have to plan your flight and fly so you can crash safely.

If you see someone breaking the rules and the PIC looks reasonable, it may not hurt to have a conversation with them about the rules, safety, and the impact that their actions have on the rest of us. Otherwise, report them.

Others will regulate us if we don’t regulate ourselves and our community. It may already be too late.

Well said !

 

[adm_geomatics]

This is the type of thing that gives us a bad name and I would attempt to find the pilot and approach them at first with interest being a fellow pilot. Just observing and asking certain questions will give you a good idea of what they have going on. If you feel they are in violation explain your thoughts and if they get ugly then report them. If they seem surprised then I think we should give them the second chance. You can tell the attitude of a person pretty quickly. If you can't find the pilot then I don't see that there is much that can be done.

Seems like a university would have a no fly rule. All of them in our area require notification and an exhibit of the flight plan and intentions so that just another regulation that should be followed. Especially in the case of State universities. These types of entities should always be contacted in my opinion especially with campuses that are almost always going to have foot traffic.

 

[adm_geomatics]

Be careful. “Flying over people” is different from flying in the vicinity of and flying near people.

The FAA defines and limits “flying over people“ as flying literally, directly over some part of their body, which is illegal. Flying in the vicinity of and flying near people is technically legal but would be considered reckless by most if you were to lose control and hit someone who was not directly under the UAV. Reckless flying is illegal, so you as PIC don’t need to be flying directly over someone to be bending or breaking the rules.

I think it’s difficult for you as PIC and anyone else observing to tell if the UAV is flying directly over people unless the UAV is very close to them - like maybe within 10-ft of them. About the only way to tell if you are directly over someone or a particular point on the ground is to look straight down with the camera, and even then there is no accurate way of knowing if the camera is actually looking straight down.

Bottom line, flying over people is difficult to prove and enforce.

Having said the above, as PIC you are required to fly safely at all times, and you are responsible and liable for your decisions and actions, including crashing. You have to plan your flight and fly so you can crash safely.

If you see someone breaking the rules and the PIC looks reasonable, it may not hurt to have a conversation with them about the rules, safety, and the impact that their actions have on the rest of us. Otherwise, report them.

Others will regulate us if we don’t regulate ourselves and our community. It may already be too late.

This is a rule that I have continually looked for clarification on. There is a mention of 50ft, but if you are 200ft in the air how does that work. Obviously as you stated the directly over is a no-no, but my interpretation is that in a judgement (maybe by others) that if the drone went down and it could fall in line of foot traffic then that is a no-no as well? Law enforcement in our area is starting to be trained on the regulations so if they see something they deem as a violation then what happens?

 

[PatR]

The reg concerning flight directly over people does not have an altitude limit or definition. Lacking one, there is no defined vertical separation that would allow flight over people at any altitude. The higher the drone the more difficult is is to determine if the drone is or is not over a person. More difficult for you and anyone observing you. Lacking clear definition it is likely an outside observer would claim you were flying over people even if you were not. Using a common conflict of interest rule, it’s always better to avoid the appearance of a conflict even if none actually occurs.

We operate in an area of law where we are not innocent until proven guilty. Every FAA violation requires the pilot establish their innocence instead of someone having to prove they are guilty. It’s best to avoid being charged with a violation. Doing that requires we are conservative in our operations, not operating to the edges of legal allowance.

 

[R Martin]

This is a rule that I have continually looked for clarification on. There is a mention of 50ft, but if you are 200ft in the air how does that work. Obviously as you stated the directly over is a no-no, but my interpretation is that in a judgement (maybe by others) that if the drone went down and it could fall in line of foot traffic then that is a no-no as well? Law enforcement in our area is starting to be trained on the regulations so if they see something they deem as a violation then what happens?

We all know 107.39:
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless that human being is:

(a) Directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft; or

(b) Located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.

That is pretty explicit and taken literally means what it means. But you also need to be aware of 107.23:
No person may:

(a) Operate a small unmanned aircraft system in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another; or

(b) Allow an object to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft in a manner that creates an undue hazard to persons or property.

With the above you need to plan an exclusion zone to prevent yourself from "operating in a careless or reckless manner..."and cover the bases. Plus it is just good common sense which ain't all that common any more. Even if you aren't operating directly over someone and are in compliance with 107.39 and you have an accident that injures someone because you didn't take adequate steps to ensure the public's safety, you "could" be in violation of 107.23. Food for thought.

 

[clintsito]

If you see this happening, you should/must have proof of the event, best is to have video and pics of these violations, especially showing pilot in command. This way FAA has evidence not just hearsay.

Yes, I agree, video and pics are very important. I recommend flying your drone as close as possible to their drone to get high quality video! /s

 

[R Martin]

Seems like a university would have a no fly rule. All of them in our area require notification and an exhibit of the flight plan and intentions so that just another regulation that should be followed. Especially in the case of State universities. These types of entities should always be contacted in my opinion especially with campuses that are almost always going to have foot traffic.

Ours does regarding recreational flight. Commercial flights have to be approved by Risk Management including our own. You have to provide your cert, proof of insurance, your COA to operate in controlled airspace and a plan to perform the flight safely. The number of incidents since implementation of the new policy has been significantly reduced (though not stopped). Rules and regs are in place to keep honest people honest; the rest will do what they think they can get away with.