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European Wide License agreement

Phil Broom

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Hello,

If anyone who has tried to work in the EU you will know you are supposed to have a separate license from each of the other 27 member states, which to my mind is madness! Surely each State approved commercial license is enough to qualify you to fly in any of the other EU states?

So given that I’ve written to my local MEP’s and asked them to lobby the point in EU parliament and wondered if anyone else would like to do the same?

Here’s a link to the EU MP’s site, you put in your postcode and a list of your MEP’s come up. I’ve put a copy of my letter below to give you an idea, but feel free to add your own bit.

WriteToThem

Power to the people…or get in quick before we leave!!

Cheers

Phil


Dear Sir/Madam,

As a UK Commercial Drone pilot with CAA ‘Permission for Commercial Operations’ or PfCO for short, I currently cannot fly in any of the other 27 member States of Europe without undertaking a qualifying course set by each of those States to gain a license. In a nutshell I would need to do 28 separate courses in each State, in their language, to obtain the same license, each costing around £1200.

I wonder if you would mind exploring the option of obtaining EU regulation which allows any European Commercial Drone Pilot who has their own state approved Commercial License (Not hobby flying registration) to be allowed to fly freely within all the other states without need of separate license for each.

Similar to a commercial airline pilot, they have a worldwide recognised qualification/license which allows them to fly in any airspace, in any country without the need for them the get a separate license for each country they fly into.

The simple fact is the licenses in all of the 28 States require near identical knowledge of Drone avionic law and procedures. In essence you are simply repeating the same course and spending a vast amount of money in the process. (My course cost £1200.) The CAA is classed as a world leader in the Civil Aviation world, which given my qualification has been approved by them; surely should qualify me to fly at least within Europe airspace without the need to replicate each course?

I feel the restriction to gain a license in each State goes against the principles and laws of being in an open market and a member of the European Community.

I would be most grateful if you could explore this issue and let me know your thoughts?

Please remember this is for qualified commercial drone operators, not the hobby flyer registration scheme.

I look forward to your response.

Kind regards
 

The Editor

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Hello,

If anyone who has tried to work in the EU you will know you are supposed to have a separate license from each of the other 27 member states, which to my mind is madness! Surely each State approved commercial license is enough to qualify you to fly in any of the other EU states?

So given that I’ve written to my local MEP’s and asked them to lobby the point in EU parliament and wondered if anyone else would like to do the same?

Here’s a link to the EU MP’s site, you put in your postcode and a list of your MEP’s come up. I’ve put a copy of my letter below to give you an idea, but feel free to add your own bit.

WriteToThem

Power to the people…or get in quick before we leave!!

Cheers

Phil


Dear Sir/Madam,

As a UK Commercial Drone pilot with CAA ‘Permission for Commercial Operations’ or PfCO for short, I currently cannot fly in any of the other 27 member States of Europe without undertaking a qualifying course set by each of those States to gain a license. In a nutshell I would need to do 28 separate courses in each State, in their language, to obtain the same license, each costing around £1200.

I wonder if you would mind exploring the option of obtaining EU regulation which allows any European Commercial Drone Pilot who has their own state approved Commercial License (Not hobby flying registration) to be allowed to fly freely within all the other states without need of separate license for each.

Similar to a commercial airline pilot, they have a worldwide recognised qualification/license which allows them to fly in any airspace, in any country without the need for them the get a separate license for each country they fly into.

The simple fact is the licenses in all of the 28 States require near identical knowledge of Drone avionic law and procedures. In essence you are simply repeating the same course and spending a vast amount of money in the process. (My course cost £1200.) The CAA is classed as a world leader in the Civil Aviation world, which given my qualification has been approved by them; surely should qualify me to fly at least within Europe airspace without the need to replicate each course?

I feel the restriction to gain a license in each State goes against the principles and laws of being in an open market and a member of the European Community.

I would be most grateful if you could explore this issue and let me know your thoughts?

Please remember this is for qualified commercial drone operators, not the hobby flyer registration scheme.

I look forward to your response.

Kind regards
The problem isn’t the CAA.
It would mean EASA agreeing on something!
If you think the CAA are slow, EASA is positively glacial in the speed they move.
We also have Brexit to take into account which means anything EASA did eventually agree (or not) would then fall back under the CAA and any agreement it could make with member states of which the UK would no longer be one.
We will all be dead by the time the Government/CAA/EASA get up to speed and legislate anything!
In the meantime, technolgy they encompass within any legislation will be superseded and we start all over again.

I wouldn’t hold my breath - the last dealings I saw with EASA they couldn’t even get their heads round why EC785/2004 coverage is unsuitable for UAV’s since it was written for commercial airline carriers!
They are not the sharpest tools in the box.
 

ArrUnTuS

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By 2019 or 2020, I am not sure, they want to come up with a common European regulation that will allow it. A new law has just been adopted in Spain and this point has been discussed.

However, in your case, even if it is a common European regulation and given that the United Kingdom is in the process of leaving the European Union, things may be different.

But for now, as you say, you have to comply with the national regulations of each country where you want to fly.
 

Phil Broom

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Just following up from this thread, here's my reply from Europe. (I've cut and paste from a PDF, so apologies for the layout). Seems to moving in the right direction !


Thank you for your letter in which you convey concerns about the need to take multiple, similar
qualifying courses to gain an operating licence for drones in each of the EU Member States.

I am pleased to inform you that in the wake of the adoption of the revised Regulation on common
rules in the field of civil aviation and establishing a European Aviation Safety Agency, the Commission intends to propose the adoption of a new regulation laying down rules and procedures for the operation of unmanned aircraft. These new rules will require authorisations and declarations for drone operators and proof of remote pilot competency to meet safety requirements set out in EU legislation.

After a certain period, to be set in the legislation, all drone operators will need to convert their existing authorisations into the authorisations or declarations required by the new legislation and the system will apply across the EU. This will allow drone operators to operate in each Member State under the same conditions, without needing to re-qualify in each country.

Since the requirements for the safe operation of drones vary depending on the drone’s characteristics, the types and locations of operation which are envisaged, and the operator itself, the Commission is likely to propose different rules for different categories of drone operations. Those rules will be ‘operation-centric’ and will be focused on clear safety performance objectives.

The Commission considers that higher-risk drone operations should be regulated using similar rules as for ‘manned’ aircraft. This includes the certification of the aircraft or licensing of the ‘remote pilot’. The European Aviation Safety Agency will be asked to consider how best to create a regulatory framework to cover operations like these. As a qualified commercial drone operator, your constituent’s operation of drones probably falls into the lower-risk category of drone operations.

The Commission considers that drone operations like these should be regulated based on the nature and risk ofthe operation or activity. For these operations, the Commission intends to propose adopting proportionate requirements, adapted to the level ofrisk inherent to this category.

I would like to confirm the importance of the drone sector for the Commission. Drones can substantially contribute to wider EU objectives, such as supporting economic activity, the digitalisation of the economy, environmental protection and transport efficiency. However, the
extensive range of potential applications of drones continue to raise issues about their impact on the safety and security of airspace users and people on the ground, as well as on citizens’ privacy and the use of private data. These also need to be addressed in the future drone regulations.


I hope these explanations will reassure your constituent.


Yours sincerely,
 

The Editor

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Just following up from this thread, here's my reply from Europe. (I've cut and paste from a PDF, so apologies for the layout). Seems to moving in the right direction !


Thank you for your letter in which you convey concerns about the need to take multiple, similar
qualifying courses to gain an operating licence for drones in each of the EU Member States.

I am pleased to inform you that in the wake of the adoption of the revised Regulation on common
rules in the field of civil aviation and establishing a European Aviation Safety Agency, the Commission intends to propose the adoption of a new regulation laying down rules and procedures for the operation of unmanned aircraft. These new rules will require authorisations and declarations for drone operators and proof of remote pilot competency to meet safety requirements set out in EU legislation.

After a certain period, to be set in the legislation, all drone operators will need to convert their existing authorisations into the authorisations or declarations required by the new legislation and the system will apply across the EU. This will allow drone operators to operate in each Member State under the same conditions, without needing to re-qualify in each country.

Since the requirements for the safe operation of drones vary depending on the drone’s characteristics, the types and locations of operation which are envisaged, and the operator itself, the Commission is likely to propose different rules for different categories of drone operations. Those rules will be ‘operation-centric’ and will be focused on clear safety performance objectives.

The Commission considers that higher-risk drone operations should be regulated using similar rules as for ‘manned’ aircraft. This includes the certification of the aircraft or licensing of the ‘remote pilot’. The European Aviation Safety Agency will be asked to consider how best to create a regulatory framework to cover operations like these. As a qualified commercial drone operator, your constituent’s operation of drones probably falls into the lower-risk category of drone operations.

The Commission considers that drone operations like these should be regulated based on the nature and risk ofthe operation or activity. For these operations, the Commission intends to propose adopting proportionate requirements, adapted to the level ofrisk inherent to this category.

I would like to confirm the importance of the drone sector for the Commission. Drones can substantially contribute to wider EU objectives, such as supporting economic activity, the digitalisation of the economy, environmental protection and transport efficiency. However, the
extensive range of potential applications of drones continue to raise issues about their impact on the safety and security of airspace users and people on the ground, as well as on citizens’ privacy and the use of private data. These also need to be addressed in the future drone regulations.


I hope these explanations will reassure your constituent.


Yours sincerely,
And we'll all be retired (or dead) by the time this is ratified.
Brexit will have happened and we will be out of the EU so will need to incorporate this with agreement from the other member states of which the UK will no longer be one.
This was slated (originally) for circa 2019 - well we know that's not going to happen.
It has slid to 2021, but all the Eurocretins in Brussels will have to agree. Since they only move at glacial speed I refer back to my opening sentence (and post no. 2)
I will continue not hold my breath.
 

Electronick

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As the uk is leaving the eu, don't hold your breath on your uk permissions being granted any formal equivalence to those in the eu, nor in being able to carry them over, even if the CAA maintains full alignment with EASA after the divorce.

I think you'll find that you'll have to sit a formal qualifying exam in an EU state, and that will become your 'home' state. So if the first eu job you do is in Ireland, you'll have to sit the exam for the Irish regulator, and that will be your governing state (aka competent authority) to which you pay your dues, insurance etc. If your first job is in France, likewise... and so on. So chances are you'll have to pay to work in the uk (qualifications and insurance), then you'll have to pay again to work in an EU country by paying to qualify again and be insured again....

Tourist/non-commercial fliers will need to do the same... register the drone in the first eu state they fly in, then pass the online competence/flight exam, then pay whatever dues and insurance are mandated by that state.
 

ArrUnTuS

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The latest news is that they want to bring forward the European Common Drone Flight Space for this year. They're speeding it up. We'll see about that later. Bureaucracy is always slow :rolleyes:
 

The Editor

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The latest news is that they want to bring forward the European Common Drone Flight Space for this year. They're speeding it up. We'll see about that later. Bureaucracy is always slow :rolleyes:
Source?
 

The Editor

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AESA and the media. It has been announced numerous times. If you do a Google search, you'll find out for sure
Assume you mean EASA and no, bill is still slated for first half of 2019.
 

ArrUnTuS

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No, i mean AESA and has a deadline between 2018 and 2020 to enter into force. Most likely later than 2020.

When I say AESA I mean people who work there have said it several times and last Wednesday I was at a presentation of the royal decree approved in December and confirmed it again, indicating that the most likely would not give a deadline to develop it and would delay more than 2020, but that is already speculation.

When it is approved then it will be EASA that will keep track of everything and not like now the national organizations of each country. For example AESA ;)
 

The Editor

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No, i mean AESA and has a deadline between 2018 and 2020 to enter into force. Most likely later than 2020.

When I say AESA I mean people who work there have said it several times and last Wednesday I was at a presentation of the royal decree approved in December and confirmed it again, indicating that the most likely would not give a deadline to develop it and would delay more than 2020, but that is already speculation.

When it is approved then it will be EASA that will keep track of everything and not like now the national organizations of each country. For example AESA ;)
Oh, you mean this lot?....AESA-Agencia Estatal de Seguridad Aérea - Ministerio de Fomento
Sorry, thought it was a typo rather than a referral to a specific countries AA. :)
 
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