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Fixed Wing Drone suggestions for DSAR work?

Johnny C!

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Age
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Location
Western North Carolina
I am looking to move up from my 2 Sparks (which
have been great) to at least a M2P, for commercial
stills work. With the invite to the DSAR in Atlanta
and now Waynesville, I am researching for a drone
that will be better suited for that mission role. I
have been building & flying fixed wing RC for about
30 years. So understanding that a fixed wing will have
a much great loiter time than a quad, are there any
systems that are known to be affordable and effective
for this mission type?

I have been researching for a while, but I don't trust
very many ads or websites based on my experience
with the fly by night types of businesses.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

John
 
Fixed wing can be very expensive if you want to buy an ready made system. Jon at RMUS was testing some out recently and you may be able to give him a shout to find out the results.
 
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Hi John,

I agree that fixed wing systems that come ready to fly out of the box are pricey. But given that you have been doing fixed wing RC for 30 years, I will make a wild and crazy assumption that you aren't worried about gluing a few parts together yourself.

It is not terribly difficult to install a pixhawk flight controller yourself on an RC airplane and create something that flies about as well as any similar size commercial system. In fact I would predict that many (most?) of the fixed wing commercial systems you could source would be based on the pixhawk flight controller anyway.

A commercial aircraft may give you more polish, it will be ready to fly out of the box, you'll get service and support (hopefully!) and a nicely integrated camera/payload system. There are some good systems out there worth considering, especially if you put a realistic price on your own time. If you do hunt around for existing systems, don't miss the Sentera PHX.

From my own experience I suggest that you will want an airplane that is easy to hand launch and can fly a fairly steep approach without over speeding. Bigger isn't always better. Many of the flying-wing based designs are 110% white knucklers to get into the air and land because their wing loading creeps up a lot during the design process. Don't get hung up on specs (speed, payload, endurance.) When you optimize the numbers in the brochure, you can end up with something that is really difficult to operate safely.

My 2nd all time favorite fixed wing drone is the venerable "Skywalker" with the pusher prop right behind the main wing, and the T-tail. It's not fast, it's a bit floppy, but it is extremely easy to launch and land, carries a decent payload/battery, and can hit airspeeds that are plenty good for survey/mapping work. If you want to minimize your own stress and simultaneously maximize the work you can get done this is a great choice.

My current favorite is the X-UAV Talon (with wing extensions.) This has a lot more payload area/capacity than the skywalker. It's engineered better. It flies cleaner, straighter, truer (it is an awesome flyer.) It still is pretty easy to hand launch/belly in. It hits higher flight speeds compared to the skywalker. I had my talon cruising at 40kts the other day with quite a bit of throttle left. Top all out speed on the skywalker is about 35kts (with the recommended motor and prop anyway.)

Both planes can easily carry enough battery for 1+ hour flights and still carry mirrorless slr type camera (we fly the sony a6000).

Another airplane worth considering is the believer. The big feature it offers is the tail and wings snap easily in and out for transport. This could be important if you need to travel distances to do your work. The one I got to see ended up pretty heavy ... to the point of being iffier for hand launch, but was still manageable if it wasn't your first airplane. The twin engine thing doesn't impress me, but it does put the props in a little safer location for hand launch compared to the Talon. The believer is quite a bit more expensive than the Talon, but still super cheap compared to a ready-to-fly commercial solution.

After you pick the airplane, the other huge consideration is payload. If you need high quality real time video on a gimbal, that's something I don't have much experience with. Most of my work has been chasing the highest resolution aerial imagery we can get (i.e. better than dji at the same altitude).

Good luck with your search, I find it really interesting what choices people make and why, so please let us know what direction you decide on and what the most motivating factors were. There is definitely not a right or wrong answer here. Thanks!
 
^^^^^ Excellent write up and SPOT ON!!

I saw one tested on YT a few weeks ago that really piqued my interest I just gotta go back and find it now. It might be one of the ones @clolsonus mentioned.

I'll BRB hopefully :)
 
I am short on time this am, but I wanted to
add in some quick thoughts & comments.

First, Thank you to clolsonus. That post is
like drinking from a fire hose, but I will digest
all of it & research all the drones that you have
mentioned. An out of the box system would
be great, but they do appear to be unaffordable
to me, so I have to consider building one,
I suppose. I am finishing up on my second
.20 size hand launch RC plane that I started
early this spring, so hand launching is
something I am comfortable with. And I have
built a couple catapults in the past, as well.
The FPV portion will be the area that I will
be weakest on. I have heard about the
Pixhawk in the past, but I have never looked
into what it is or what it does, but I will now.

And again, it does look like I am going to
buy a M2P more for commercial stills,
but the angle I am approaching the fixed
wing at is that with the longer loiter time
it will be a different skill set in the quiver
for DSAR, I hope.

When I got my Class 3 pilots license I was
told it was my license to learn. I guess the
same thing applies to the Part 107 ticket
and drones, and I am pretty excited about
all of it.

Thanks for all of the input & encouragement
from Al & the others.

John
 
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@Johnny C! just make sure you have whatever you chose is ready to fly in September at our training event. We've got fields and fields to test a long endurance system in. :)
 
Oh Boy! No pressure!

I have been getting my son & I ready for our
annual hike in to Camp Daniel Boone & Boy
Scout Camp next week, so I'll be away from
my PC for a while. I have only looked at the
RV Jet, so far, but it is encouraging that it
appears to be in an affordable price range
with great features & endurance. But I will
need to have some in depth discussions
with you guys in the know about payloads/
cameras & philosophies of use for DSAR.

Not much time today again, but I'll check
back in from time to time.

Thanks again!

John
 
There are lots of good ways to do things and my advice is only out of my own tiny slice of experience.

My one caution is that if you pick a plane that needs a catapult or bungee to launch, that is not insignificant. That is extra stuff to load up in the morning, extra stuff to transport, extra stuff to setup before your flights, extra stuff to take down, pack up, and finally unload back at home or the office. Also, every plane I've personally flown that needed launch assist had pretty high wing loading and thus was at least somewhat sketchy. (There are some great commercial/military launch and recovery systems if you don't mind taking an extra humvee and trailer and six extra guys with you every where you go.) If the launch is even a little bit sketchy, that will translate into launch fails once in a while. Failed launches result in broken airplanes, field repairs, and often downtime. The thing that sucks the worst is going through the whole extended process of prepping, traveling, setting up ... and then you prang your airplane on launch and you are done for the day. It would be easy to think you'll just bring an backup airplane and spare parts ... and that may be great. But in my experience I'm often down to one flyable plane, or one airplane that is currently setup for the thing I need to do. Sometimes field repairs don't work out if everyone is on a tight schedule. It's hard to make quality decisions and do quality work under pressure, sometimes it is just easier to call a 3rd strike on yourself, go home, and regroup.

Flying wings typically do not have friendly stall characteristics. The one 7.6' flying wing I helped design would go around twice after a snap/stall before you could recover it.

Pusher props can't blow air over your own control surfaces. Your control surfaces are only as effective as your actual airspeed. This means that it can be very difficult to power out of a slow/sketchy situation if your launch system (and wind conditions) aren't perfect every time.

High wing loading often happens when you increase battery for longer endurance, and get the complete payload package installed.

It would be easy to find yourself in a situation where your power system worked great for the first empty test flight, but might suddenly be fairly under-powered when you finally get your airplane fully outfitted at it's mission weight. Our flying wing on a high density altitude day could do about 100-200 fpm climb which was pretty white knuckle if you hit a couple up/down drafts and start wondering if it's actually able to climb or not. (We had nice endurance, cruise speed, and payload specs though ...)

So mix all that together ... flying wing, pusher prop, high wing loading, high stall speed, possibly under powered == sketchy launches.

It all depends on the actual details of course, but for any uav work I do now and in the future, I'd never pick a flying wing unless the situation had no alternative. Personally I have a couple fun flying (pure RC) flying wings that are easy to launch and fly great and are super fun (the sonic 64 is great) ... but those are very lightly loaded, way over powered, and much smaller than your typical uav would be.

My 2 cents ...
 
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Oh Boy! No pressure!

I have been getting my son & I ready for our
annual hike in to Camp Daniel Boone & Boy
Scout Camp next week, so I'll be away from
my PC for a while. I have only looked at the
RV Jet, so far, but it is encouraging that it
appears to be in an affordable price range
with great features & endurance. But I will
need to have some in depth discussions
with you guys in the know about payloads/
cameras & philosophies of use for DSAR.

Not much time today again, but I'll check
back in from time to time.

Thanks again!

John


I know CDB very well. Not only did I spend some Boy Scout time up there as a kid, we have searches up there for lost hikers (not Boy Scouts lol) fairly often in that area because it's just below some very well traveled hiking trails. We had a lost hiker up there a few weeks ago and we deployed our sUAS for the day.
 
Al,
We start on 215. Camp Friday night at Flat Laurel Creek. We split
into groups of 10 as we cross through the Shining Rock area & camp
on the down slope Saturday night above CDB. A great hike in a beautiful
area.

clolsonus,
Thanks again for the detailed input. Good points about
controlled slow flight with pushers. I have only flown tractors,
and most of my latest builds have been twins so I have to dial
the aileron throws way down from where I like my singles to be.
 
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Al,
We start on 215. Camp Friday night at Flat Laurel Creek. We split
into groups of 10 as we cross through the Shining Rock area & camp
on the down slope Saturday night above CDB. A great hike in a beautiful
area.

You'll be in this area:
1469


That's Lake Allan and Camp Daniel Boone from way up high on the mountain above it.
 
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So understanding that a fixed wing will have
a much great loiter time than a quad, are there any
systems that are known to be affordable and effective
for this mission type?

John,

Look at the FireFly 6 Pro. With three battery packs you can keep the aircraft in the air as long as your endurance allows. You can hot swap mission sensors on the fly without any tools. They also have a good sensor selection that is configured to work out of the box with the aircraft. We have been flight testing our unit for about three months and we are going live with it in July. Awesome machine. Actual numbers are off a little from the marketing claims but not enough to cause concern.
 
@R Martin,

The FireFly 6 Pro is going to be out of my price
range at this time, but I like the Vtol/fixed wing
package. It combines the best of both types of
drones.

Also, in a effort to help me better understand the
possible advantages of a fixed wing drone, please
describe your current mission ops.

Thanks for the input!

John
 
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@R Martin,

The FireFly 6 Pro is going to be out of my price
range at this time, but I like the Vtol/fixed wing
package. It combines the best of both types of
drones.

Also, in a effort to help me better understand the
possible advantages of a fixed wing drone, please
describe your current mission ops.

Thanks for the input!

John
What's your budget and your flight specs?
 
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I was hoping to gain insight into an affordable
air frame that I could utilize for DSAR, but I
don't know enough to answer the flight spec
question. As for the budget, I have been close
to spending $2k for an outfitted M2P mainly
for still images for commercial work.. If I find
a fixed wing platform conducive for DSAR in
that price range I would be closer to buying one,
but I will need to have a some previously
mentioned confabs with the experts here to
confirm that a fixed wing drone could be useful
for DSAR.

I guess the BLUF is, I don't know what I don't
know, and that is why I am here.
 
I was hoping to gain insight into an affordable
air frame that I could utilize for DSAR, but I
don't know enough to answer the flight spec
question. As for the budget, I have been close
to spending $2k for an outfitted M2P mainly
for still images for commercial work.. If I find
a fixed wing platform conducive for DSAR in
that price range I would be closer to buying one,
but I will need to have a some previously
mentioned confabs with the experts here to
confirm that a fixed wing drone could be useful
for DSAR.

I guess the BLUF is, I don't know what I don't
know, and that is why I am here.
$2k for a fixed wing and sensors will not be enough. IMHO. As far as I know, nothing plug-and-play is out there under 2K.
 
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The RV Jet has my attention right now. The air frame
and motor set is very affordable. I am going to check
into telemetry/video system costs. I have a Go Pro that
I am not using, and transmitters, but I am willing to buy
others, if needed.

I can swing the purchase of the air frame now and get it
in the air as an LOS RC, to begin familiarization of the
flight characteristics.


Pre Order...
 
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