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Flight Training

rvrrat14

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As our industry grows, see the need for training others; SAFELY!

Was wondering what you consider/charge/estimate to charge for flight training someone. No ground school; flight proficiency.

I figure maybe 10 hrs for a beginner, depending on the person. Also, only teaching someone with a professional model drone with compass, GPS, telemetry.

Opinions please. THANKS Guys!
 
As our industry grows, see the need for training others; SAFELY!

Was wondering what you consider/charge/estimate to charge for flight training someone. No ground school; flight proficiency.

I figure maybe 10 hrs for a beginner, depending on the person. Also, only teaching someone with a professional model drone with compass, GPS, telemetry.

Opinions please. THANKS Guys!

Absolutely agreed that training is needed. However, not many will take advantage unless it's a requirement for licensing, which may or may not ever happen.

I think 10 hours is a reasonable amount of training...with the understanding that it may be more or less to reach "proficiency" based on the person.
 
If it were up to me I think someone should be able to handle their aircraft full manual if possible. There are exceptions, such as the Sensefly eBee, my boss who grew up flying RC fixed wings tried to fly one manual and it was such a hairy experience he will never do it again lol.

But for the most part being able to fly a multirotor without GPS and even without the barometer/altimeter is a good precaution for someone to still have a chance to fly their UAS in the event of a GPS failure due to interference etc.

The are $50 quads out there that come with altitude hold to ease up the learning curve a bit. The more the controls are natural and can be accomplished without thinking the best someone can respond to an urgent situation. There's is no time to think about your inputs in extreme cases you just have to react.

You can train your whole life for contingencies and maybe never have to do them, however it can save your aircraft some day and maybe even a life on the ground if you know your aircraft and how to control it properly.
 
Flight training is a very real need and 100% should be a requirement across the board. Unfortunately until the FAA gets ahead of the curve (I'm estimating 2025) and creates standards/mandates it will be a dept by dept decision/requirement.

We do this type of training with Public Safety but we do 5 days with the first 3 being theory/law etc and the last 2 days (16 hours) of hands on flight training. We put the students through the course initially with all the training wheels on (GPS etc) and also introduce failures/problems all along the way. Depending on the dept involved we teach with everything from cheap off-the-shelf toy units up to Matice210's.

Keep in mind we don't teach you how to shoot great video or take pretty pictures. We teach you how to operate a sUAS in high-stress situations in a safe, legal, and controlled manner. YMMV
 
If it were up to me I think someone should be able to handle their aircraft full manual if possible. There are exceptions, such as the Sensefly eBee, my boss who grew up flying RC fixed wings tried to fly one manual and it was such a hairy experience he will never do it again lol.

But for the most part being able to fly a multirotor without GPS and even without the barometer/altimeter is a good precaution for someone to still have a chance to fly their UAS in the event of a GPS failure due to interference etc.

The are $50 quads out there that come with altitude hold to ease up the learning curve a bit. The more the controls are natural and can be accomplished without thinking the best someone can respond to an urgent situation. There's is no time to think about your inputs in extreme cases you just have to react.

You can train your whole life for contingencies and maybe never have to do them, however it can save your aircraft some day and maybe even a life on the ground if you know your aircraft and how to control it properly.

Absolutely. Part of the proficiency would be to control the aircraft in ALL flight modes. I don’t want to spend time with little Johnny and his 25.00 toy. This is for folks that want to invest the time to learn and fly a professional model. Farmers, ranchers, Fire Dept personnel, Police, would-be Part 107 pilots, etc. I know our state Ag Extension Agents are beginning to introduce drones to their industry.
 
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As our industry grows, see the need for training others; SAFELY!

Was wondering what you consider/charge/estimate to charge for flight training someone. No ground school; flight proficiency.

I figure maybe 10 hrs for a beginner, depending on the person. Also, only teaching someone with a professional model drone with compass, GPS, telemetry.

Opinions please. THANKS Guys!
Since this is an international forum - what country?
There are differing requirements for different countries.
Some require a flight assesment and a minimum number of hours flight time per year.
 
I gravitated to drones from the commercial manned aircraft community (2600 hrs, comm-ASMEL-I, CFI-A, and former Accident Prevention Councilor). So, it won't surprise anyone that I am wholeheartedly in favor of flight training (and a flight proficiency component of the Commercial certificate exam.) As our numbers increase - and especially as we move toward full integration into the NAS - flight training is very likely to become a requirement (as it eventually did with the Sports certificate in manned flight.) And that requirement may not necessarily originate with the FAA (although they will certainly move faster if local and state authorities start moving in that direction); the first to mandate training in any official sense may be insurance companies (who will balk at having to pay out losses should we start seeing costly "pilot error" accidents.)

If you intend to take up flight training new pilots (now or after it becomes a requirement) don't forget to factor in a healthy amount of insurance for yourself - both for hull coverage and liability - and an LLC to reduce liability exposure.

In the meantime, you could recommend anyone who wants to fly drones begin with an inexpensive Atti-only model and fly the hell out of it. Then, when they step up to something more utilitarian recommend they log 50(ish) hours doing everything manually (and with a VO instead of onboard collision avoidance). By the time they can fly an Orbit (with the aircraft pointed in 4 different directions) - or a complex 3-axis maneuver, manually with "cinematic" smoothness - they'll be ready to handle "lose of mode" situations. (Motor/prop failures, bird impacts, battery fires are - of course - a whole different world.)
 
Since this is an international forum - what country?
There are differing requirements for different countries.
Some require a flight assesment and a minimum number of hours flight time per year.
Part 107 is stated - USA
 
I gravitated to drones from the commercial manned aircraft community (2600 hrs, comm-ASMEL-I, CFI-A, and former Accident Prevention Councilor). So, it won't surprise anyone that I am wholeheartedly in favor of flight training (and a flight proficiency component of the Commercial certificate exam.) As our numbers increase - and especially as we move toward full integration into the NAS - flight training is very likely to become a requirement (as it eventually did with the Sports certificate in manned flight.) And that requirement may not necessarily originate with the FAA (although they will certainly move faster if local and state authorities start moving in that direction); the first to mandate training in any official sense may be insurance companies (who will balk at having to pay out losses should we start seeing costly "pilot error" accidents.)

If you intend to take up flight training new pilots (now or after it becomes a requirement) don't forget to factor in a healthy amount of insurance for yourself - both for hull coverage and liability - and an LLC to reduce liability exposure.

In the meantime, you could recommend anyone who wants to fly drones begin with an inexpensive Atti-only model and fly the hell out of it. Then, when they step up to something more utilitarian recommend they log 50(ish) hours doing everything manually (and with a VO instead of onboard collision avoidance). By the time they can fly an Orbit (with the aircraft pointed in 4 different directions) - or a complex 3-axis maneuver, manually with "cinematic" smoothness - they'll be ready to handle "lose of mode" situations. (Motor/prop failures, bird impacts, battery fires are - of course - a whole different world.)

I agree flight training, and performance evaluation should be mandatory, and may be in the future.
However I think you are kind of doing an overkill on you training requirements.

I got my private in less than 40 hrs, soloed in 7 hrs so lets be real, there is no rocket science to flying these things and most here are self taught. I have logged several thousand hours in various aircraft but drones is a whole new world an the guys that have been playing with RC aircraft for years adapt to it quicker than us fixed wing or helo pilots.

You make a good point by requiring proficiency in the ATTi mode because autonomous flight makes for lazy pilots, both in drones and commercial aircraft. I personally like flying in the ATTi mode because it helps me keep my situational awareness, and is more fun. To me letting go of the controller and watching the thing stop in the air and hover waiting for you.

The other side of it functions like mapping just couldn't be done without autonomous capabilities.
 
I agree flight training, and performance evaluation should be mandatory, and may be in the future.
However I think you are kind of doing an overkill on you training requirements.

I got my private in less than 40 hrs, soloed in 7 hrs so lets be real, there is no rocket science to flying these things and most here are self taught. I have logged several thousand hours in various aircraft but drones is a whole new world an the guys that have been playing with RC aircraft for years adapt to it quicker than us fixed wing or helo pilots.

You make a good point by requiring proficiency in the ATTi mode because autonomous flight makes for lazy pilots, both in drones and commercial aircraft. I personally like flying in the ATTi mode because it helps me keep my situational awareness, and is more fun. To me letting go of the controller and watching the thing stop in the air and hover waiting for you.

The other side of it functions like mapping just couldn't be done without autonomous capabilities.

I'm aware of the requirements for Part 61 Private Pilot's certification. And to clarify, my recommendation of 50 hours (plus or minus) was a ballpark figure for solo practice to achieve manual proficiency (not a recommended amount of dual instruction.)

But, getting back to the 40 hours you mentioned - that, as you pointed out, earned you private privileges, not commercial (and that, you will recall, required at least 210 more hours to acquire.) Autonomous flight doesn't make for lazy pilots; it doesn't make pilots at all. It makes programmers who, if the "autonomous" gives out, may find themselves watching helplessly as their bird departs VLOS. We, as commercial pilots (as professional pilots), should be proficient enough to control the aircraft even without an autopilot (especially if we ever hope to gain full access, as equals, to the NAS) - skilled enough, perhaps, to still offer our clients specialized, high-end services even after AI has rendered as obsolete those who can only fly a program.

Let's be real? OK. No, there is no rocket science to flying these things (conventional manned aircraft or sUAS.) But "overkill" training requirements have made aviation far safer than, say, driving a car. All predictions indicate that the National Airspace is going to get a lot more crowded - and at a phenomenal rate - over the next few years. So, I would bet on Commercial sUAS Remote Pilot training aligning itself (or, more precisely, being aligned by the FAA) with traditional pilot training, rather than the automotive/self-taught model.

I'm not sure what you meant to say in the sentence ending with "...hover waiting for you." Is it missing something?

Same thing, I'm afraid, with the last paragraph. Did you mean to suggest that mapping can't be done without autonomous capabilities? If that wasn't what you meant to suggest I apologize for the confusion. But if it was what you were suggesting I would certainly disagree.
 
As for the mapping, that is exactly what I meant, the accuracy of say Drone Deploy would be extremely difficult if not impossible to to match flying the mapping manually. The job site I'm on just increased the mapping area significantly and DD now takes 1023 photos and three pairs of batteries. Flying it and keeping the correct overlay manually would be extremely tough to say the least.

Sorry I didn't complete the sentence, my point was the drones software is attempting to make drone operation idiot proof, meaning if you neutralize the sticks she goes into a hover until you figure out what to do next. This can give a false sense of security to a new pilot just learning. I agree with you, learn to fly in the ATTi mode first, but reality is that isn't happening today.

I got my commercial ticket after about 280 hours, I never wanted to deal with the airlines so never got an ATP rating, just instrument, multi engine, and commercial. Flown crop dusters, for CDF, charters, ferried aircraft, CFI, I know big deal, ect.

FAA is making things much harder for the airline guys, now must have 1500 hours to get the ATP ratting, as we all know sh... flows down hill and it is coming to the drone community.
 

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