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Flying over people and/or moving vehicles

BryanD

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Really trying to understand what the restrictions are. I see a lot of videos of people flying over cities and roadways where there are obviously people and moving vehicles. But they are probably 200 feet up. Does that make a difference?

A little background on why I am asking. I have been flying RC airplanes at an AMA club for the past 17 years. I am trying to figure out how to fly outside the friendly confines of my club field - trying to fly safely, responsibly and respect people's privacy. As a result, I am having difficulty figuring out where to fly my Phantom other than at my club field or at my house. I have my Part 107 Certification but for now only flying as a hobbyist but want to fly as though flying as commercial.

Just trying to figure out how to feel comfortable flying outside the confines of my club field. Also struggling with picking a place to launch from. Never sure if it is okay to take off from the parking lot - is it private property or public?

Please help, I want to fly my Phantom somewhere other than my club field but hesitant t do so.
 
Full disclosure: I am no expert. My understanding is that the concern for flying over people is one of possible mechanical failure, as opposed to pilot error. Thus, the restriction is essentially unlimited in terms of altitude. That regulation is however under much discussion and can be waived (Section 107.39, Operation over people.).
 
As a hobbyist, even if you fly at the lake, or in an open field you will eventually fly over people. From my perspective it is inevitable. I think the rule is intended to be for one to not fly over crowds, and/or hover over people.
I was at a hot air balloon exhibit last summer. The balloons were tethered. It's a small town, so many of the locals were in attendance. I was surprised to see about a dozen drones in the air. almost all of them; respectfully, hovered on the outskirts of the event. Still, some people would have had to have passed underneath. It's inevitable. There was one individual who launched a mavic from essentially the heart of the event. Before long, he backed up an flew from the outskirts. No one seemed to be bothered by the drones.
Mechanical failure is the risk.
I avoid people as best I can.
 
You can fly over cars, but not over people. You can even fly over tents. Any time there's a possibility that it can fall out of the sky and hit someone in the head it is an issue. A car roof or tent is considered adequate protection. I prefer to not to fly over cars because if it falls out of the sky and hits a car, I am liable for damage. But I have flown high over roads so that my drone is not a distraction. Of course my black drone is a lot harder to see than a white one, so that helps.

I fly in our city parks and over lakes. I often take off from parking lots. It all depends on what the local rules are. I don't fly downtown - I don't want to risk the GPS interference causing an accident. I would if it was for an event and I had city permission (and insurance!) and I could carefully check the area beforehand.

I fly a lot in my neighborhood. Of course all the neighbors know me but I don't fly over backyards, just over the streets. I have flown farmland (empty of animals that could panic) and I've done an abandoned mansion. Those times I will take off from a sidewalk or area along the road that is "public domain". As long as I am not trespassing, or violating privacy, there's not much anyone can do. Its not any different than me flying a helicopter over and taking pictures. FAA controls the airspace, and I follow their rules as well.

One of my absolute FAVORITE places to fly is a neighborhood construction site! They are usually empty on weekends, most of the trees are knocked down, and anything I hit will only really damage my drone. I have a lot of cinematic footage flying around backhoes and dump trucks, LOL! But those practiced skills come in handy when I am flying for $.

Capture.PNG
 
It's fairly easy... if you have a failure (mechanical, software, human error) and the sUAS strikes a person then you were not flying within the regulation. There is no "safety net" such as back 50' etc because the dynamics of the event change depending on wind, aircraft speed, aircraft weight, type of failure etc.

Always try to fly with the "what if I had a total failure right now would it strike any person on the ground".

Basically if there is an incident and someone is "struck" you're probably going to be at fault because as RPIC it's out responsibility to fly in a manner that does not jeopardize a manned aircraft or anyone on the ground.

At some point you will "accidentally" fly over someone but your goal is to minimize that to as close to ZERO as you can and always think about WHAT IF . . . .
 
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You can fly over cars, but not over people. You can even fly over tents. Any time there's a possibility that it can fall out of the sky and hit someone in the head it is an issue. A car roof or tent is considered adequate protection. I prefer to not to fly over cars because if it falls out of the sky and hits a car, I am liable for damage. But I have flown high over roads so that my drone is not a distraction. Of course my black drone is a lot harder to see than a white one, so that helps.

I fly in our city parks and over lakes. I often take off from parking lots. It all depends on what the local rules are. I don't fly downtown - I don't want to risk the GPS interference causing an accident. I would if it was for an event and I had city permission (and insurance!) and I could carefully check the area beforehand.

I fly a lot in my neighborhood. Of course all the neighbors know me but I don't fly over backyards, just over the streets. I have flown farmland (empty of animals that could panic) and I've done an abandoned mansion. Those times I will take off from a sidewalk or area along the road that is "public domain". As long as I am not trespassing, or violating privacy, there's not much anyone can do. Its not any different than me flying a helicopter over and taking pictures. FAA controls the airspace, and I follow their rules as well.

One of my absolute FAVORITE places to fly is a neighborhood construction site! They are usually empty on weekends, most of the trees are knocked down, and anything I hit will only really damage my drone. I have a lot of cinematic footage flying around backhoes and dump trucks, LOL! But those practiced skills come in handy when I am flying for $.

View attachment 442
You can fly over cars, but not over people. You can even fly over tents. Any time there's a possibility that it can fall out of the sky and hit someone in the head it is an issue. A car roof or tent is considered adequate protection. I prefer to not to fly over cars because if it falls out of the sky and hits a car, I am liable for damage. But I have flown high over roads so that my drone is not a distraction. Of course my black drone is a lot harder to see than a white one, so that helps.

I fly in our city parks and over lakes. I often take off from parking lots. It all depends on what the local rules are. I don't fly downtown - I don't want to risk the GPS interference causing an accident. I would if it was for an event and I had city permission (and insurance!) and I could carefully check the area beforehand.

I fly a lot in my neighborhood. Of course all the neighbors know me but I don't fly over backyards, just over the streets. I have flown farmland (empty of animals that could panic) and I've done an abandoned mansion. Those times I will take off from a sidewalk or area along the road that is "public domain". As long as I am not trespassing, or violating privacy, there's not much anyone can do. Its not any different than me flying a helicopter over and taking pictures. FAA controls the airspace, and I follow their rules as well.

One of my absolute FAVORITE places to fly is a neighborhood construction site! They are usually empty on weekends, most of the trees are knocked down, and anything I hit will only really damage my drone. I have a lot of cinematic footage flying around backhoes and dump trucks, LOL! But those practiced skills come in handy when I am flying for $.

View attachment 442
It is a violation to fly over moving vehicles.
 
Thanks for all of the responses.

I am not exactly sure what mechanical failure entails. It could mean dropping like a rock out of the sky or veering off in some direction before hitting the ground. The higher up you are, the less predictable the landing spot after a failure.

Maybe I am over analyzing. Good common sense is probably a good rule of thumb. It seems like most places with good subject matter for pictures have people, not necessarily crowds, and or moving vehicles.

I have seen many videos of my home town - Cincinnati. Nice pictures and videos of the skyline, stadiums (empty), river and bridges. But there is no way they were captured without flying over some people or moving vehicles on bridges and interstate highways at some point. I would love to capture some images like this but just not sure if it is the right thing to do.

Please help. I am finding myself in a state of paralysis - fearful of flying in most places that have decent subject matter. I guess it comes from flying for 17+ years within the friendly confines of an AMA field.
 
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Ive attached a study here



Final Report

for the

FAA UAS Center of Excellence Task A4: UAS Ground Collision Severity Evaluation

Revision 2

It addresses just how dangerous...or not...our tool of the trade can be. Im a very nerdy tech kinda guy and was very engrossed and educated by it, but also know it may be a bit much for others. In short it covers almost every possible injury by a UAS and the possibility of them as a whole. There is also a lot of other useful information.
One sobering takeaway was, a Phantom experiencing motor failure, and while falling reaches terminal velocity would most likely produce a 90% fatality if it struck someone on the head.

Hate to be a debbie downer here, but I think its worth sharing. If you disagree, please do so respectively and professionally.
 

Attachments

  • ASSURE_A4_Final_Report_UAS_Ground_Collision_Severity_Evaluation.pdf
    7.4 MB · Views: 14
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Thanks for all of the responses.

I am not exactly sure what mechanical failure entails. It could mean dropping like a rock out of the sky or veering off in some direction before hitting the ground. The higher up you are, the less predictable the landing spot after a failure.

Maybe I am over analyzing. Good common sense is probably a good rule of thumb. It seems like most places with good subject matter for pictures have people, not necessarily crowds, and or moving vehicles.

I have seen many videos of my home town - Cincinnati. Nice pictures and videos of the skyline, stadiums (empty), river and bridges. But there is no way they were captured without flying over some people or moving vehicles on bridges and interstate highways at some point. I would love to capture some images like this but just not sure if it is the right thing to do.

Please help. I am finding myself in a state of paralysis - fearful of flying in most places that have decent subject matter. I guess it comes from flying for 17+ years within the friendly confines of an AMA field.
I don't know how you hung in there for 17 years at an AMA field. If that was my only choice, I would never have got into this hobby. Start slow, go somewhere like the lake, or a park in the early morning when few people are there. If I can avoid people, I do, but I want to fly in interesting places. I fly over a small downtown, but I do it at 7AM on a Sunday. Few if anyone is there. when you are up in the sky, look at your monitor, and select a path that is the least risk, if something bad were to happen. Be sure to do your preflight check list, which for me is check the propellers, battery, IMU calibration, Compass calibration, GPS signal, and home;point. Suck it up, or sell it
 
Not sure what you meant by that but 17 years ago we did not have park flyers and I didn't have access to lots of land to fly my airplanes. So a club with a nice airstrip was the best option. Even with park flyers you never know when people are going to be there. With the club field i can go any time and know i will be able to fly. But that gets pretty boring pretty quickly with a drone!
 
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Not sure what you meant by that but 17 years ago we did not have park flyers and I didn't have access to lots of land to fly my airplanes. So a club with a nice airstrip was the best option. Even with park flyers you never know when people are going to be there. With the club field i can go any time and know i will be able to fly. But that gets pretty boring pretty quickly with a drone!
No doubt, and I apologize for being so blunt. I have been flying a drone for only 1.5 years. I never flew fixed wing. When I first began, the drone had a limit of 500M distance, and I thought, "500 meters! I'll never go that far!" Well, within three months I was thinking "500 meters? Is that it?"
I too was scared to death of the drone flying away, or crashing into somebody, or somebody's car/home/whatever. I thought of giving it up I was so concerned.
It took a little while, but I gained considerable confidence in the drone's ability to return to home by itself if it got disconnected, or low battery.

For me this is all about the video. That being the case, I have to find new places to fly, or I get bored.
There are a lot of great places to take video out there, but you have to travel to get to them, which is a big part of the adventure.

I still am cautious, but now I am not scared to death. I have confidence in my abilities to maneuver the drone, and which locations I choose (use google earth pro - free now, help select locations from my recliner), and avoid unnecessary risks.
Just two weeks ago, I passed the Part 107. I studied it to understand airspace, which is about the only thing applicable to drones. I don't intend to attempt to make money at it, so it was really a waste of $150. I could have bought more batteries.
Anyway, start slow. Pick spots of low risk, and go from there. Get away from the AMA field, or whatever, and move away from your comfort zone over time.
You'll have fun. It's worth it.
 
Thanks for clarifying. I don't take my drone to the field to much anymore. About the only time I do is when I am trying something new like autonomous flight modes that I have not used yet or testing obstacle avoidance.
 
I suppose as a hobbyist it seems anything goes
as a 107 holder it is a no no
and for good reason, the first time you have a motor or esc go, or have a power failure and witness one of these things falling out of the sky hundreds of feet up, you might not realize how very dangerous the act of flying over anything you cant pay for is.
 
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I don't know how you hung in there for 17 years at an AMA field. If that was my only choice, I would never have got into this hobby.

Just a few years ago if you didn't fly at a club your odds of success were very dismal at best. Before GPS guidance, Gyro Stabilization, and Ready to Fly kits you had to buy it, build it, learn to fly it. If you didn't do well at one of the above steps it was a self correcting hobby. The drop out/failure rate was low for those at the local flying field (it still wasn't zero unfortunately) but it was extremely high for non-club attempts.

Some of us still fly "at the club flying field" now and again because we have aircraft that take more than a dinner plate size piece of ground to launch & land. Actually flying the aircraft is a lot more fun than most might expect compared to today's "autonomous flight modes".
 
My job is at a large construction site, (UC Merced, CA) There are several hundred people working on this site. Main priority is to avoid flying over any of the construction people. I have had days where I needed to wait til a group went on break, lunch, or off work before I could get that photos my client wanted.

I don't get concerned about vehicles, but the last thing I would ever want is that Inspire 2 to come crashing down on someone, so many times it means being patient and waiting for the right time or opportunity to fly.

The other thing is, each time I change batteries I check it over. Before each days flights I make sure everything is secure, I launch in a remote area, and make sure she is performing as it should before starting my job.

It is my opinion that many failures of aircraft, helos, drones, are due to poor preflight inspections.
 
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Just a few years ago if you didn't fly at a club your odds of success were very dismal at best. Before GPS guidance, Gyro Stabilization, and Ready to Fly kits you had to buy it, build it, learn to fly it. If you didn't do well at one of the above steps it was a self correcting hobby. The drop out/failure rate was low for those at the local flying field (it still wasn't zero unfortunately) but it was extremely high for non-club attempts.

Some of us still fly "at the club flying field" now and again because we have aircraft that take more than a dinner plate size piece of ground to launch & land. Actually flying the aircraft is a lot more fun than most might expect compared to today's "autonomous flight modes".
Once again BigAl, you said it best - couldn't agree more. I really enjoy flying my planes - really flying them without all the stabilization and gyros. But I also like using the technology that drones provide. It is two different worlds and I am enjoying both.
 
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I suppose as a hobbyist it seems anything goes
as a 107 holder it is a no no
and for good reason, the first time you have a motor or esc go, or have a power failure and witness one of these things falling out of the sky hundreds of feet up, you might not realize how very dangerous the act of flying over anything you cant pay for is.
Even a motor failure at 40 feet is significant. Fortunately mine hit a gravel area where nothing valuable (that I did not own) was underneath or nearby. Mass and spinning props, and maybe even the possibility of a LiPo fire. I was stunned to see a recent YouTube video taken directly over a narrow bridge with heavy traffic. Easy to imagine a smashed windshield leading to worse damage.
 
I wouldn't recommend it. Not over bare people, and not over moving cars. Hobby or commercial.

Instead you could buy some cones and section off areas to keep as intended flight paths to keep pedestrians and cars out of. Use VO's to help spot when its clear to cross a street or two. But at the end of the day if you are flying over people and or moving cars you are violating the regulations.

Take the extra time and find a safer solution. There almost always is one. And if there isn't. Then maybe the job/flight needs to be reconsidered.

Also, with regards to launching from parking lots. We do that all the time. We are usually hired by one of the buildings to perform a roof or A/C inspection in that said parking lot, so we have permission. Find a docile safe spot where there's little to no chance of any distractions. Usually around the back for us. Find the best possible flight path.. put the bird up and in our case we are just going over the top of the buildings. So no real worry of flying over moving traffic or people.

However if you're just looking for a place to take off from for a hobby flight, I'm not sure how good of an idea an active parking lot would be. You're almost always going to have a lot of obstacles to deal with. And where would you fly to? Youre probably surrounded by active streets too I'd imagine, no?
And if you want to truly stay 100% legal, especially now that you have your 107, you're not going to want to violate them.
 
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