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Inadvertent entry into Authorization Zone

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I was getting ready to fly my Mavic Pro in Class G space, but before I took off I got a warning in the display that there is an Authorization Zone 300 feet away, and RTH and other functions may not operate properly if I entered it.
Has anyone entered an authorization zone inadvertently, and what's the Mavic's behavior in such a case? Does it refuse to respond to commands? Does it try to land right then and there? Are there any failsafes built in, such that it will stop before entering the Authorization Zone, taking into account its momentum while flying towards it?
The last thing that I'd want to happen is for me to lose control of the craft inside an Authorization Zone, or for it to land in an inaccessible spot.
 
As I understand, it will refuse to take off in an unauthorized area and does a forced landing if you stray into unauthorized space. If you ever do this unintentionally, don't forget to file a NASA form just in case some authority noticed your transgression. If you confess in the NASA form, that information cannot be used in an enforcement action.
 
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If you ever do this unintentionally, don't forget to file a NASA form just in case some authority noticed your transgression. If you confess in the NASA form, that information cannot be used in an enforcement action.

Where in the world did you read this? Why would NASA care about drone flights?

I would LOVE to see your source material for this one...
 
Where in the world did you read this? Why would NASA care about drone flights?

I would LOVE to see your source material for this one...
The NASA Aviation Safety program has been around for years. Most airplane pilots are taught about its existence during their flight training and I had many flight instructors joke that they kept the NASA form in their flight bag, but the report can be filed online these days. Drone pilots can use them them as well. NASA was made responsible because having FAA do these safety reports and do enforcement actions too would be a conflict of interest. ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System

Here is how it works. You file the report which is confidential but you will receive a number from NASA acknowledging the report. Then if the FAA sends you a proposed fine for your violation, you inform them that you have reported the violation to the NASA system and provide them with your reporting number. They will close the action unless they can show that it was intentional.
 
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Reality is, don't screw up and you don't need the form. As an example, I was spraying some fields and ended up spraying a couple cars on an adjacent road. I assumed they would file a complaint so I filed, with an explanation of my mistake. Never heard a word from big brother.
 
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Good information to have. In all my training I'd never heard of drone pilots having the system available to them.
Most of the online UAS training sites teach you just enough to get you certified but only just. If you haven't looked at them already, check out NTSB accident reporting regulation as well as the NASA form. Accident reporting that you are required to do with NTSB is a lot more immediate. The NASA form is almost a free pass to keep you from losing your cert as long as there was no criminal intent if I remember right. Have to check the details at the office tomorrow.
 
Good information to have. In all my training I'd never heard of drone pilots having the system available to them.


Yep that's where the "disconnect" from Manned to Unmanned is once again highlighted. I'd bet that most of the "UAS Teachers" who aren't Part 61 (or higher) know nothing about ASRS system. If it involves the FARs then it "could" fall under the NASA Report (that's what we've called them for years).

For others reading this, it's only for MINOR infractions and does not WAIVE if there is an accident, Injury, or Criminal actions. Also, under Section 609 Admin CAN re-investigate and take action even after the ASRS form has been filed etc.

  • FAA policies regarding the ASRS are covered by Advisory Circular 00-46F and FAR 91.25. The waiver of penalties is subject to the following limitations: (A) the alleged violation must be inadvertent and not deliberate, (B) it must not reveal an event subject to Section 609 of the Federal Aviation Act, (C) the reporter must not have been found guilty of a violation of the FARs or the Federal Aviation Act during the preceding five years, and (D) the ASRS report must be submitted within 10 days of the event.
 
I was getting ready to fly my Mavic Pro in Class G space, but before I took off I got a warning in the display that there is an Authorization Zone 300 feet away, and RTH and other functions may not operate properly if I entered it.
Has anyone entered an authorization zone inadvertently, and what's the Mavic's behavior in such a case? Does it refuse to respond to commands? Does it try to land right then and there? Are there any failsafes built in, such that it will stop before entering the Authorization Zone, taking into account its momentum while flying towards it?
The last thing that I'd want to happen is for me to lose control of the craft inside an Authorization Zone, or for it to land in an inaccessible spot.
DJI "authorization zones" and FAA controlled airspace are two separate things. They overlap at times, but not all the time. You are obliged to follow FAA rules, not DJI's. DJI may suddenly land when it hits one of their "authorization zones," taking complete control from you, which in my opinion, is dangerous and risky to the safety of the airspace.

I remember having to run down a hill to pull my drone out of one of their perceived close-by zones once. I've also had it drop down to 4 inches and just stop where it was (luckily it wasn't over anything or anyone that could have gotten hurt), accepting no control from me. I've had a lot of situations lately when my FAA authorization gave me 150 feet higher than DJI would allow it to fly. I've also had it detect runways that don't exist and once, in a very public demonstration it refused to take off when one of their red zones was 1/2 mile away on the map, but right there on the app, even though the indicated location of the drone was correct.

I sincerely believe that the recent report of the Matrice 300 that caused significant injury to the operator, was related to their "FLY-Safe" policy programmed on the drone. The pilot made a serious mistake in trying to manually shut it down, but he wouldn't have been put in that position if not for DJI's programmed in safety policy, which killed stick control. Control of the drone should never ever be taken away from the pilot. You can stop it from taking off, but once in the air, a person needs to control it, not some policy.

I truly believe that DJI has some of the best hardware out there right now. I've had to get very picky where I try to use it though, because of their software.
 
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Your question, about what happens if you “inadvertently” fly into an AZ (though my understanding and experience is that the drone will stop at the boundary) suggests that you intend to continue with your flight. Fine, as the AZ is “300ft away”; however, if you fly into the AZ - or attempt an RTH that would try to cross the AZ - you will not be able to claim that you did so “inadvertently” as you have indicated here that you know it exists and exactly where it is. It is up to you as pilot to fly your drone/UAV/sRPA in such a way that it does not enter any FAA/TC AZ.
 
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Your question, about what happens if you “inadvertently” fly into an AZ (though my understanding and experience is that the drone will stop at the boundary) suggests that you intend to continue with your flight. Fine, as the AZ is “300ft away”; however, if you fly into the AZ - or attempt an RTH that would try to cross the AZ - you will not be able to claim that you did so “inadvertently” as you have indicated here that you know it exists and exactly where it is. It is up to you as pilot to fly your drone/UAV/sRPA in such a way that it does not enter any FAA/TC AZ.
You may have "authorization zones" where you are, but here, we have a very defined "controlled airspace" set by the FAA. Our "authorization zones" are set by DJI, not the entity controlling our airspace (FAA). They only exist with DJI drones, which is why a lot of us have adopted drones from other manufacturers as back up.

From my experience, The "authorization zones" don't have hard defined boundaries that block your entry. It seems to be softer than that. I can enter an authorization zone and get several hundred yards in before it realizes I am in one of their DJI zones. Then it will take control and land, even in FAA defined uncontrolled airspace. I've gone all the way through a small portion of one before it realized I was there and then I couldn't get back (one not even on their web site).

This could be GPS variation, but I've had it even recognize a runway in the middle of a small town main road (never had an airport there). I recently couldn't fly because even though I had AA from the FAA and negotiated permission from a nearby military base, DJI showed an airport runway on top of the class D that I was going to fly in (it can only handle one unlock token at a time). That "runway" was actually a hospital helipad, not a runway.

What's interesting is that since the DJI zones don't match the legal ones. It won't stop me from flying in a lot of controlled airspace, where I could actually get in trouble with the authorities. The zones are also different for the model of drone. I could fly my Inspire 1 in places I couldn't think of flying my Phantom 4 Pro...same with a Phantom 3.

The DJI authorization zones do not even come close to showing what actual controlled airspace looks like and doesn't model the rules we have to follow.
 
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The point I'm making is that you know exactly where the DJI AZ is, so your responsibility will extend to any unforeseen incidents that occur as a result of flying into or in the zone. Your site survey - you do do a site survey before each flight, don't you - will identify any DJI AZ that exists, and DJI also provides the ability to get authorisation to fly in one.
 
Yes, I understand that it's my responsibility to avoid the safety issues, created by the DJI AZ. The AZ's, at least most of them, are found on their self-unlocking web site. It doesn't always work though (I couldn't use my Phantom on two jobs last week because I couldn't get an answer from the web site) and our airspace authorizations usually have a limited time frame. As far as a site survey, you won't always know that you will hit one of their AZ's until you get in the air and hit it (could be variation in GPS readings, I'm not sure). You won't always see them at ground level and they may not be where they are shown on the map...been there, done that, scared me half to death. Those are the reasons I have a non-DJI back up.

I have two jobs tomorrow, one in a Class C/D intersection. I already have permission from the FAA and the unlock token from DJI for the Class D, but I still have to worry that it will work because sometimes, it just doesn't. I will have my backup on site though.
 
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I've always spoken directly to the DJI rep (not sure if he was in Canada or the US) and, if I've had any issues, he has always sorted it out.
 
I've always spoken directly to the DJI rep (not sure if he was in Canada or the US) and, if I've had any issues, he has always sorted it out.
After two days of emailing, I reached one about 3 hours before I had to fly. He told me to send them all the information for them to unlock an area and give them several days to do it. That sounds great, but I didn't have that time.

I got another email from some lady who saw the issues I had and that to investigate the issues, I would have to send my drone back to them...and pay them to do it. Gee, I thought I may be helping them with a software design issue they overlooked. There is nothing wrong with the drone.

They were both nice, but I don't think either understood the problems. I fly in a lot of Class D and C airspace, with quite a bit of it overlapping. It's in the overlapping areas where the major issue is...except of course, when the Self-Unlocking web site isn't responding.
 
Your question, about what happens if you “inadvertently” fly into an AZ (though my understanding and experience is that the drone will stop at the boundary) suggests that you intend to continue with your flight. Fine, as the AZ is “300ft away”; however, if you fly into the AZ - or attempt an RTH that would try to cross the AZ - you will not be able to claim that you did so “inadvertently” as you have indicated here that you know it exists and exactly where it is. It is up to you as pilot to fly your drone/UAV/sRPA in such a way that it does not enter any FAA/TC AZ.
Well, my concern is that even though I got a warning on my display about an authorization zone being 300 feet away, the DJI map did not show any nearby authorization zones. The nearest zone, according to the DJI map, was at least 0.5 miles away. I have attached a map with the area in question, including an inset with the sectional map.
So to say the least, it was unnerving getting a warning that made no sense to me, and that's why I asked about "inadvertently" wandering into an authorization zone that shows nowhere in the documentation.
So, if the DJI app decides that an area you are flying in is suddenly an "authorization zone" I would at least expect it to allow me to maintain control of the craft, so that I can get out of it. As someone else said, and I agree, I consider it very dangerous for the app to take control authority away from the PIC. It would be fine, and even desirable, to refuse to enter further into the authorization zone, but allow movement outwards, so that the PIC can get out.
 

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Well, my concern is that even though I got a warning on my display about an authorization zone being 300 feet away, the DJI map did not show any nearby authorization zones. The nearest zone, according to the DJI map, was at least 0.5 miles away. I have attached a map with the area in question, including an inset with the sectional map.
So to say the least, it was unnerving getting a warning that made no sense to me, and that's why I asked about "inadvertently" wandering into an authorization zone that shows nowhere in the documentation.
So, if the DJI app decides that an area you are flying in is suddenly an "authorization zone" I would at least expect it to allow me to maintain control of the craft, so that I can get out of it. As someone else said, and I agree, I consider it very dangerous for the app to take control authority away from the PIC. It would be fine, and even desirable, to refuse to enter further into the authorization zone, but allow movement outwards, so that the PIC can get out.
I knew this had to be happening to someone else too. The first time it happened to me, it took 6 weeks to get the Airspace authorization, then two weeks negotiating with the airboss at a base. He issued a NOTAM about my operation, then he shut down all helo traffic for 30 minutes...then the drone wouldn't even take off. It detected one of its red zones a similar distance away from the drone as your situation. I've been told it couldn't happen, now am vindicated!
 
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I knew this had to be happening to someone else too. The first time it happened to me, it took 6 weeks to get the Airspace authorization, then two weeks negotiating with the airboss at a base. He issued a NOTAM about my operation, then he shut down all helo traffic for 30 minutes...then the drone wouldn't even take off. It detected one of its red zones a similar distance away from the drone as your situation. I've been told it couldn't happen, now am vindicated!
I’d heard stories about getting pre-authorized at the DJI website but then the drone refusing to take off, regardless. But the existence of phantom AZ’s was something new to me, and completely unexpected. I hope DJI listens and cleans up those issues, and more importantly, changes the app’s behavior to allow the PIC to maintain control.
 
The point I'm making is that you know exactly where the DJI AZ is, so your responsibility will extend to any unforeseen incidents that occur as a result of flying into or in the zone. Your site survey - you do do a site survey before each flight, don't you - will identify any DJI AZ that exists, and DJI also provides the ability to get authorisation to fly in one.
I think Rob's point is that DJI has no jurisdiction to govern US airspace, which their authorization zones are doing. What is the purpose of being certificated to fly by the governing body when a foreign company is setting additional restrictions? A lot of DJI's information is faulty or sloppily entered. While they may be able to set restrictions in Canada, to my knowledge, the FAA has not granted that authority in the US.
 

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