More commercial opportunities

[Deltadave]

If the rate is below ~$350/day for pilot and ~$250/day for VO without a per diem it would be under a current low market rate. Vehicles are often not provided or compensated for as those have to be negotiated between the contractor and prime before contract signing. The sub contractors won’t be able to obtain anything not originally included in the prime contract.

Something to be cognizant of, there has been at least one aerial utility contractor here in California that didn’t pay their bills, leaving more than a few subcontractors out several thousand $$ to tens of thousands of $ in unpaid wages and expenses. A few have managed to obtain partial payment, but not all. The problem started with the first large post fire mapping effort of a community burn down and continued well after that project was completed....

Yup! The project is still not complete, though pay has gotten better.
People far away from home we're stranded on their own for months on end with no resources or pay.
The shady company avoided emails and demand for pay.
Some people just lost their patience and quit without pay, and thousands owed to them.
Recently, the contractor figured he did not do his due diligence on rental vehicles.
At the start, vehicles were provided and fuel was supposed to be reimbursed with a three day turn around when requested.
What a joke.
Some racked up over $1K in gas, out of pocket before they saw a nickel.
Now the contractor moved vehicle responsibility to the pilots and promised more compensation.
We'll see how that pans out, but I have a pretty good idea who will be holding the bag.
It was crap from the beginning.
Only thing that kept it going was the team bonding, and git-er-done attitude by the teams themselves.
Outstanding pilots that camped outdoors for months on end where failure was not an option.
Totally dedicated teams, working and living in harsh conditions to reach that goal, while continually fine tuning processes to streamline efficiency and increase data quality.
Hats off to these teams, shame on SGS for being a sh!tty player.

 

[PatR]

I was one of the lucky ones to work for a good outfit. Treated their people well, paid well and quickly, trusted your decisions for go-no go situations, and they provided everything but a pick up.

I’d still be there if one of my knees didn’t need to be replaced after many years of abuse. It was an uncertainty but with hope of holding up when I first applied.

I’m surprised a bunch of people haven’t gotten together to sue the outfit you worked for for unfair business practices and contract fraud. At minimum you folks needed to have all your company non compete agreements nullified just to get another job in the same field. Instead you never got paid and are prohibited from working for anyone else.

BTW, you’re not the only one I’ve talked to that experienced what you did. I’ve encountered quite a few more that got hurt as bad and worse than you did. One guy was out over $22k.

 

[Deltadave]

I was made whole after getting nasty, but some just lost their momentum and gave up.
I was let loose and offered a VO position by the top vendor, but had enough at that point and didn't invest in the best equipment to watch somebody else fly, so I declined.

 

[Dave Pitman]

I’d still be there if one of my knees didn’t need to be replaced after many years of abuse. It was an uncertainty but with hope of holding up when I first applied.

Pat, is this the gig you were on when we spoke, or a prior gig?

 

[PatR]

Pat, is this the gig you were on when we spoke, or a prior gig?

The same. I was helping look for my replacement.

 

[dfwindenergy]

This thread has been super insightful for this newbie! Thanks for being open!

 

[R.Perry]

I followed this thread for a while, and the reality if most of these companies want the largest share of the pie, and they are doing little to warrant it.
Reality if there just isn't much money to be made unless you can get your own contracts with power companies or cell tower owners.
The way I look at it is how much time to I need to spend to accomplish a job, how much money do I want to make per hour after expenses. If you are going to run a business you better make at least 50 to 60 dollars an hour after expenses or your wasting your time.
I just found another job that pays fairly good. That is dams inspection and security monitoring. Since I live in an area with multiple dams it is a good gig, and no I'm not going to share the details.

 

[PatR]

Good on you, and you would be a fool to share the details[emoji106]. All I can say is there are a few good companies out their paying a good wage. Downside is those working for them have no incentive to leave so positions don’t often open up.

In power line work Precision Hawk is at the top of the pay scale at ~$500/day for the pilot and ~$350/day for a VO. The outfit I was with was a little under that but it wasn’t hard to earn over $2k/week with zero out of pocket for lodging and food. Shoot, you got paid about 75% of the flying rate if you could not fly because of weather. Soon as my knee gets done I’ll be trying to get back with them.

I do agree that people providing all the equipment should be well compensated but if you get to fly company equipment and not pay for liability insurance $350-$500/day ain’t bad money. Especially when half the country works for $15/hour or less and hates every minute they spend on the job.

Just research the companies carefully and read all the fine print in a contract. If you don’t like the contract, don’t accept the job. If you do accept it will be 12 months or more before you can renegotiate.

 

[Florida Drone Supply]

PatR you are correct, understanding the project and its requirements is important to make the decision whether to accept a job or not.

It appears the pilot experiences listed are merging many projects, each of which has its own set of requirements.
Our tower projects are separate from the California power project and do not require VO....yes, our projects are based on approved tower, however, for our profile a tower can be completed in an hour and a proficient pilot with proper route planning can complete 8-10 towers/day...some pilots will not reach that goal, and yes travel and expenses are the pilots....some pilots can gross $800 - 1k/day, but if the pilot is not efficient or competent, nobody is happy.

Having a clear understanding of the job requirements (i.e. hardware requirements, travel, etc.) and accurate assessment of one's skills is key.

Happy Memorial Day!

 

[PatR]

FDS,

Question for you. At one time was your company known by another name, a company originally set up to serve the aerial RC community? There used to be a very good, pretty large RC outfit in Florida that started to shift focus to the UAV community sometime around 2008 or so and I’m wondering if your company is the same one.

BTW, as I am not aware of the inspection requirements for the project listed in the ad I made it a point to note that California inspection needs were being referenced. The specific project requirement is something that operators must understand to determine if a project is suitable for their skills and equipment.

Thanks, and may we all honor our service members on this day. May your Memorial Day be safe and pleasant as well.

 

[GadgetGuy]

This is the same outfit that was previously selling very expensive mandatory training at their location fully at your expense, under the guise of unlimited jobs available through them, if you were willing to travel and had paid for and gone through their training. Nothing has changed! The jobs pay a pittance, and you will never recover the upfront training costs! They are in the training business, not the contracting business! Caveat emptor!

 

[PatR]

Without defending or promoting FDS it’s fair to point out the multirotor industry has been taking users to the bank for years. I’ve only been involved with the multirotor side of things since 2013 but in that time it’s been obvious that the most money to be made was, and still is, obtained by selling operators a product or service, not by using a multirotor.

Going back to the days of a 333 you spent >$5k to have lawyers compile documentation for filing. Sadly, you could do it yourself for free if you put your mind to it. Multirotor manufacturers have from day one pumped out new models every 6-9 months while using shills to convince everyone they needed to buy the next latest, greatest in order to remain “competitive”, when the latest, greatest typically only had minor improvements over the previous model. Don’t forget the introduction of proprietary batteries, where placing a plastic shell and a couple of $2.00 chips on them upped battery prices from $50.00 to over $200.00 a unit. Then we have the software outfits and cloud services that can and do charge thousands of $ for their products and services. Don’t forget the trade shows charging hundreds of $ to attend along with additional fees to attend the various speaker working groups. Then we have the AUVSI, that bends you over multiple ways, including promoting numerous high priced training programs. Then we have liability insurance, where we are charged an amount equal to or exceeding the cost of the same coverage for a full scale aircraft. Our hull insurance actually costs more considering the amount paid for the coverage received.

Business is about making money, and any business that consistently does so is doing something right. When we consider all the different ways we allow ourselves to be fleeced we might think the FAA’s $5.00 registration free is the best deal we get.

It works the same in everything else. Look at new car sales where they continually hold “price reduced” sales, discounting a new or truck car price by $5,000 to $12,000. They aren’t selling for a loss during those sales. What they are doing is telling you how over priced they had been before the sale.

For the buyer it has always been Caveat Emptor. If you’re a seller it has always been about finding the customer and charging them as much as they will bear.

 

[R.Perry]

Good on you, and you would be a fool to share the details[emoji106]. All I can say is there are a few good companies out their paying a good wage. Downside is those working for them have no incentive to leave so positions don’t often open up.

I'm contracted to Multivista. The San Francisco branch pays well and on time, and they are easy people to work for. I'll be leaving the UC Merced Job in 2020. I'm not sure when the third phase will start, they already have the solar power panels installed for that phase. I'll be 72 when the current project ends and I have told them I'm not interested in the working the third phase. Guess it might be time to retire then but one never knows.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Without defending or promoting FDS it’s fair to point out the multirotor industry has been taking users to the bank for years. I’ve only been involved with the multirotor side of things since 2013 but in that time it’s been obvious that the most money to be made was, and still is, obtained by selling operators a product or service, not by using a multirotor.

Going back to the days of a 333 you spent >$5k to have lawyers compile documentation for filing. Sadly, you could do it yourself for free if you put your mind to it. Multirotor manufacturers have from day one pumped out new models every 6-9 months while using shills to convince everyone they needed to buy the next latest, greatest in order to remain “competitive”, when the latest, greatest typically only had minor improvements over the previous model. Don’t forget the introduction of proprietary batteries, where placing a plastic shell and a couple of $2.00 chips on them upped battery prices from $50.00 to over $200.00 a unit. Then we have the software outfits and cloud services that can and do charge thousands of $ for their products and services. Don’t forget the trade shows charging hundreds of $ to attend along with additional fees to attend the various speaker working groups. Then we have the AUVSI, that bends you over multiple ways, including promoting numerous high priced training programs. Then we have liability insurance, where we are charged an amount equal to or exceeding the cost of the same coverage for a full scale aircraft. Our hull insurance actually costs more considering the amount paid for the coverage received.

Business is about making money, and any business that consistently does so is doing something right. When we consider all the different ways we allow ourselves to be fleeced we might think the FAA’s $5.00 registration free is the best deal we get.

It works the same in everything else. Look at new car sales where they continually hold “price reduced” sales, discounting a new or truck car price by $5,000 to $12,000. They aren’t selling for a loss during those sales. What they are doing is telling you how over priced they had been before the sale.

For the buyer it has always been Caveat Emptor. If you’re a seller it has always been about finding the customer and charging them as much as they will bear.

Pretty simple problem, actually. If you make money, stay at it. If you don't, don't. Don't need a marketing degree to figure that out.

 

[PatR]

R. Perry,

If you want or need help, give me a shout. I’m not far away.

 

[R.Perry]

R. Perry,

If you want or need help, give me a shout. I’m not far away.

PM me, and will talk.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Pretty simple problem, actually. If you make money, stay at it. If you don't, don't. Don't need a marketing degree to figure that out.

They'll still happily charge you for that marketing degree, though!

 

[R Martin]

Pretty simple problem, actually. If you make money, stay at it. If you don't, don't. Don't need a marketing degree to figure that out.

No degree is worthless. Some just make better toilet paper than others....

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

No degree is worthless. Some just make better toilet paper than others....

 

[R.Perry]

No degree is worthless. Some just make better toilet paper than others....

With all due respect I have a problem with your statement. Education today is so critically important, it can mean the difference between a good career, or a mediocre existence in a dead end job. Many good paying careers aren't accessible without at least a bachelors degree. I'm in my seventies and I'm still taking on line courses, why, because I love to learn. Look at the military, no college education, you won't ever be an officer.
Yes there are educated idiots, we all have probably met a few, some even teach, but the reality is the average college grad is going to do much better in life than those without. End of soap box.