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NAAA Cautions Hobbyist and Professional UAS Operators to be Mindful of Low-Flying Agricultural Aircraft

LUIS MARTINEZ

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NAAA Cautions Hobbyist and Professional UAS Operators to be Mindful of Low-Flying Agricultural Aircraft this Growing Season - sUAS News - The Business of Drones

"“With the proliferation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems over the last few years, it is critical for UAS operators to be aware of agricultural aircraft,”
Were I the author of this piece, this sentence would have read:

“With the proliferation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems over the last few years, it is critical for agricultural aircraft pilots to make an effort to familiarize themselves with nearby UAS operations, such as checking NOTAMs in advance, or reaching out to local commercial UAS operations, and for UAS operators to be aware of agricultural aircraft,.”

A better expression to avoid the us v. them mentality.
 
@R.Perry
You're in crop dusting.
Can a pilot file for something like a "DROTAM" where they will be crop dusting?
Then it's seen on the SkyVector Aeronautical Chart?
They could file a NOTAM in ENII, but I really don't see Joe Cropduster doing that every work day. The ones I've met are more of the "kick the tires and light the fire" type. :D
If they'd look in Skyvector they'd see my ENII NOTAMS....
 
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I recall a test a few years back where they flew several multicopters around a field. A cropduster entered the area to determine if they could spot known drones. They could not.

So, sorry, telling manned pilots to watch out for drones is not a solid strategy. It is still 100% on us to see and avoid. A friend of mine flies medical helicopters. There is a model airplane field not far from his base (he is a long time RC modeler). He has flown behind their flight line and observed several pilots on the ground clearly flying, but was unable to spot traffic. He knew where they were, knew what they looked like, and still had a hard time spotting anything.

Which is why I call BS on most all "drone" sightings.
 
Strongly disagree. Just because it's hard it doesn't mean pilots should be absolved of the responsibility of proper pre-flight planning. I was a manned airplane aviator back when there were no computer-assisted anything. We had to get on a phone to file a flight plan, get weather, and get NOTAMs for my route. I did it every time, no excuses. Any pilot who has the ability to learn of drone flights in advance but doesn't is not much of an aviator. If your friend knew there was a drone flying near his approach airspace (via NOTAM) he would be more cautious. No professional rejects safety information.
 
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@R.Perry
You're in crop dusting.
Can a pilot file for something like a "DROTAM" where they will be crop dusting?
Then it's seen on the SkyVector Aeronautical Chart?

Most crop dusting is done outside of controlled airspace so no they don't file NOTAMs unless they are flying in controlled airspace.
Just for future knowledge, many crop dusters are owners or managers of large farms, I know a few they didn't even have a commercial license, but that was many years ago.
The way it works is your chemical or fertilizer truck is set up at the nearest place where you can land, that may be on a dirt road on some ranch, but it is what it is.
One thing about crop dusters, they have complete situational awareness, or they don't live very long.
If a drone was to hit a crop duster I can't see it causing any permanent damage.
Average altitude while dusting is 25 to 40 feet max, 100 feet max when turning to make the next pass, 200 feet max returning for the next load.
Most likely the only time you would encounter a crop duster is when he is returning for a load, headed to a knew site, or returning from one, but not while he is dusting.
Common sense tells you if someone is dusting a field or orchard, don't get in their way.

There are two crop dusters in the area where I fly, however they do not overfly the college, and I don't fly outside the job site, so we don't bother each other.
 
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Most crop dusting is done outside of controlled airspace so no they don't file NOTAMs unless they are flying in controlled airspace.
Just for future knowledge, many crop dusters are owners or managers of large farms, I know a few they didn't even have a commercial license, but that was many years ago.
The way it works is your chemical or fertilizer truck is set up at the nearest place where you can land, that may be on a dirt road on some ranch, but it is what it is.
One thing about crop dusters, they have complete situational awareness, or they don't live very long.
If a drone was to hit a crop duster I can't see it causing any permanent damage.
Average altitude while dusting is 25 to 40 feet max, 100 feet max when turning to make the next pass, 200 feet max returning for the next load.
Common sense tells you if someone is dusting a field or orchard, don't get in their way.

There are two crop dusters in the area where I fly, however they do not overfly the college, and I don't fly outside the job site, so we don't bother each other.
Wish they were all like those in your area. Unfortunately they are not. I was doing a large facility just last week and one flew right over us <100 ft. for no reason I could fathom. The fields were to the east and south...fortunately they are slow and loud so I had warning and landed. Short of stopping at every dusting operation in the area, a NOTAM is supposed to fulfill that need.

My concern with the article, or any other along those lines, is that it was one-sided, both remote and manned aviators should make an effort to learn about the other. UAS in the US and the world is big business and getting bigger, is not going away.
My manned aircraft flying days were over before drones arrived.

If I were still flying today, I cannot fathom planning a flight, even a local hop, w/o checking NOTAMS (they have info on lots of potential dangers, not just drones). If some yahoo is operating along my route w/o a NOTAM then ce la vie, I can't read minds. A professional aviator (is there another kind?) plans every flight.
 
Louis, you don't know crop dusters, first prerequisite is to be certifiably nuts. However if you had one overflying you at 100 feet sounds like he was just trying to p...... you off.
Things have changed today, back in the day, I made many flights without filing a flight-plan. As a commercial pilot though it is pretty much mandatory it your are going to enter controlled airspace.

I did a lot of things back then I would never do today, crop dusting is one of them. It is a great paying job, and one must travel as the season changes. The best one I had money wise was mosquito abatement over the city at night.
 
Louis, you don't know crop dusters, first prerequisite is to be certifiably nuts. However if you had one overflying you at 100 feet sounds like he was just trying to p...... you off.
Things have changed today, back in the day, I made many flights without filing a flight-plan. As a commercial pilot though it is pretty much mandatory it your are going to enter controlled airspace.

I did a lot of things back then I would never do today, crop dusting is one of them. It is a great paying job, and one must travel as the season changes. The best one I had money wise was mosquito abatement over the city at night.
Mosquito abatement...You must have used some tiny bullets to shoot them down.
 
Strongly disagree. Just because it's hard it doesn't mean pilots should be absolved of the responsibility of proper pre-flight planning.

They are not "absolved", but the reality is it is nearly impossible for them to see us.

Of course, the FAA made it clear whose responsibility it is:

§107.37 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.
(a) Each small unmanned aircraft must yield the right of way to all aircraft, airborne vehicles, and launch and reentry vehicles. Yielding the right of way means that the small unmanned aircraft must give way to the aircraft or vehicle and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear.

(b) No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft so close to another aircraft as to create a collision hazard.
 
Correct me if I say something you don't agree with and always speaking from the perspective of UAV pilot.......

Every time we are going to make a flight we have the obligation to check in which airspace it is going to take place, to check the meteorological conditions and to check the NOTAMs of the area where the flight is going to take place. This is the minimum essential.

Pilots of manned aircraft, if they are not going to fly in uncontrolled air space there is no obligation to present a NOTAM, I agree, but taking into account that you have a base of 500 feet. If you are going to fly below 500 feet is no longer a normal flight regardless of whether it is controlled airspace or not, so I understand that you always have to present a NOTAM in such flights. It doesn't matter what they did until now or what their habits were, as soon as you lift 1mm from the ground you are already under the air regulations, whoever you are. Aren't they telling us day in and day out that we have to comply with the regulations?

The preference of all types of manned aircraft over an unmanned aircraft is something basic and that makes all sense, always give preference to the welfare of people over the material goods.
 
I'll go WAY out on a limb here.... for the most part the LEAST of my worries are the P107 operations happening. I worry more about the hobby operations that may not even know the rules or feel like they don't apply to them and do whatever/whenever they want. Those worry me the most both from a Manned aircraft and sUAS stand point.

When I fly (I'm not a crop duster btw... don't have the spheres for that) I'm always watching for sUAS (and birds, and balloons, and....) but they are VERY difficult to see even when we know they "should" be in the area.

I'm going to tell a tale on a fellow sUAS Operator that really made me and my co-pilot mad a few months ago. We were flying IN THE AIRCRAFT locally here in rural western NC high in the Blue Ridge mountains. We have an R/C flying club (that I'm a member of) that is well known to locals and the local airport (It's several miles from the airport) and we were flying "building some hours" in a C172. We were on the radio with the guys at the flying field and made a flight along the river parallel to their runway but several hundred feet from the actual flying field at about 500' AGL. We saw planes on the ground (they fly some BIG planes from the field) but saw NO sUAS (planes, helo. or MultiRotors) in the air. Now keep in mind we know they are down there and they know we are UP HERE. We made 2 passes and then headed back to KAVL to call it a day. All seemed great until I later saw video from a MR (Custom FPV build) flying slightly above and in front of our C172. As we passed (I'd guess maybe 200' laterally) by him he fell in behind in a "pursuit" type position. We never saw the sUAS at all yet it should have clearly been directly in our field of view. I wish I had been using a GoPro to record from inside the aircraft that way maybe I could go back and review to see how large it looked from my point of view inside the aircraft. We have since "discussed" how wrong this was and the operator was given a warning from the club and is on "probation" for this "stunt".

It's the hobby/recreational knuckle heads that worry me not really the Professionals who should be and most likely are attempting to file NOTAMS etc.
 
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Correct me if I say something you don't agree with and always speaking from the perspective of UAV pilot.......

Every time we are going to make a flight we have the obligation to check in which airspace it is going to take place, to check the meteorological conditions and to check the NOTAMs of the area where the flight is going to take place. This is the minimum essential.

Pilots of manned aircraft, if they are not going to fly in uncontrolled air space there is no obligation to present a NOTAM, I agree, but taking into account that you have a base of 500 feet. If you are going to fly below 500 feet is no longer a normal flight regardless of whether it is controlled airspace or not, so I understand that you always have to present a NOTAM in such flights. It doesn't matter what they did until now or what their habits were, as soon as you lift 1mm from the ground you are already under the air regulations, whoever you are. Aren't they telling us day in and day out that we have to comply with the regulations?

The preference of all types of manned aircraft over an unmanned aircraft is something basic and that makes all sense, always give preference to the welfare of people over the material goods.

You are 100% correct, however, does everyone do what they are suppose to, do we all drive the speed limit. You always need to remember the human factor, and we are all imperfect people that screw up once in a while.
 
I'll go WAY out on a limb here.... for the most part the LEAST of my worries are the P107 operations happening. I worry more about the hobby operations that may not even know the rules or feel like they don't apply to them and do whatever/whenever they want. Those worry me the most both from a Manned aircraft and sUAS stand point.

When I fly (I'm not a crop duster btw... don't have the spheres for that) I'm always watching for sUAS (and birds, and balloons, and....) but they are VERY difficult to see even when we know they "should" be in the area.

Agreed what the RC person did was wrong. My question is was there a reason to be flying at 500 AGL close to the RC field?
 
Agreed what the RC person did was wrong. My question is was there a reason to be flying at 500 AGL close to the RC field?
It was a coordinated flight between the club and us.

Reason? Because we're all plane/aviation nuts and we get all excited with a "Real" aircraft is in the area. We were over water (no structures) and well beyond where the "normal" flights take place. There is some Private Property between the club and the river and our club has had issues previously with an RC plane impacting the farmers barn roof and doing some damage. In order to preserve the peace in the area the club has created our own "No Fly Zone" in that direction to appease the farmer. We were 1 property away from the actual "Flight Area".

We have actually landed (not in the C172) on this very field several times over the years.
 
BigA, I was just curious and that makes sense. As for short fields and a 172 I hate that plane, once you flare it want's to keep flying unless you have full flaps.
Quick story, went into and airport with a 4k runway, no passengers, (172) and when I went to lower the flaps, had no flaps, I bet that thing used up a thousand feet of runway after I flared before it decided to quite flying.
 
BigA, I was just curious and that makes sense. As for short fields and a 172 I hate that plane, once you flare it want's to keep flying unless you have full flaps.
Quick story, went into and airport with a 4k runway, no passengers, (172) and when I went to lower the flaps, had no flaps, I bet that thing used up a thousand feet of runway after I flared before it decided to quite flying.
Been there done that. The Skyhawk just wants to fly. :)
 
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BigA, I was just curious and that makes sense. As for short fields and a 172 I hate that plane, once you flare it want's to keep flying unless you have full flaps.
Quick story, went into and airport with a 4k runway, no passengers, (172) and when I went to lower the flaps, had no flaps, I bet that thing used up a thousand feet of runway after I flared before it decided to quite flying.

I flew a 172 into Phoenix Sky Harbor one night to grab a Coke at the FBO. Upon departure I was told to taxi to Bravo 8 and Runway 26. As the good little pilot I was, I dutifully asked the tower what runway remaining was from Bravo 8. "Cessna 7 Kilo Yankee you have just shy of 5,400 feet remaining". "Roger Sky Harbor Tower, that should be just enough for me, 7 Kilo Yankee rolling".....

I got lots of mike clicks from the commercial traffic. I don't think you can fly GA into PHX any longer. Too bad. That's a fun memory!
 

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