Permanent UAS NOTAMS

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 16, 2019

This question is for everyone, but particularly RPIC who are also manned aircraft pilots. As an aviator, do you see any useful purpose for a public safety agency issuing a permanent NOTAM for UAS operations in an 8 mile radius around their city, to avoid issuing NOTAMS for every mission?

I have a real concern re: the FAA approving these permanent notices for what may be a once per month operation.( "Sometime" we may have our UAS airborne, may be day or night, may be somewhere within these 200 square miles )Why bother? I am no longer actively flying for medical reasons so I’d like to hear current pilots’ thoughts on this. If I’m wrong, I don’t mind eating crow (eaten so much it now tastes like lobster).

Phaedrus · Jun 16, 2019

NOTAMs are nothing more than information. They do not restrict you from doing anything. Would not bother me in the least.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 16, 2019

Phaedrus said:
NOTAMs are nothing more than information. They do not restrict you from doing anything. Would not bother me in the least.

Yes , Thanks . My concern is the "crying wolf" perception it creates. Why bother issuing one at all?
A daily, semi-permanent operation, like an aerostat, construction crane, or a parachuting operation makes sense. A "once in a while" warning is useless to aviators. Useless NOTAMs reduce their usefulness. IMHO.

Fred Garvin · Jun 16, 2019

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
...... Why bother issuing one at all?.....

I’ve never issued a NOTAM. In all the training material I’ve gone through (and it’s a lot) I’ve never once read that there’s a requirement to issue a NOTAM for any of our operations.

So, why do any of you do this? Did I miss something important? Yes, I do understand what they are and I do check them (and TFR’s) before flying, but unless I’ve got an extremely unusual circumstance.......

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 16, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
I’ve never issued a NOTAM. In all the training material I’ve gone through (and it’s a lot) I’ve never once read that there’s a requirement to issue a NOTAM for any of our operations.

So, why do any of you do this? Did I miss something important? Yes, I do understand what they are and I do check them (and TFR’s) before flying, but unless I’ve got an extremely unusual circumstance.......

Fair question. there is no requirement for UAS operators. NOTAMS are not issued for drone operators, they are issued for aviators, to inform them of potential hazards.

From the FAA (forgive me if you are a manned ac pilot):
A NOTAM is a notice containing information essential to personnel concerned with flight operations but not known far enough in advance to be publicized by other means. It states the abnormal status of a component of the National Airspace System (NAS) – not the normal status.

Every user of the NAS is affected by NOTAMs because they indicate the real-time and abnormal status of a component of the NAS.
NOTAMs concern the establishment, condition, or change of any facility, service, procedure or hazard in the NAS.
NOTAMs have a unique language using special contractions to make communication more efficient.

Dave Pitman · Jun 16, 2019

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
This question is for everyone, but particularly RPIC who are also manned aircraft pilots. As an aviator, do you see any useful purpose for a public safety agency issuing a permanent NOTAM for UAS operations in an 8 mile radius around their city, to avoid issuing NOTAMS for every mission?

No. A waste of time and just more noise that doesn't need to add to what I need to review if flying in a particular area.

I also very, very rarely issue a NOTAM for an operation of mine. In fact I only think I've issued 2 in 3 1/2 years and those were because it was required on an operation for the DoE. I look at it from the perspective of flying manned aviation. Do "I" want to review a NOTAM issued for a UAS flight at or below 400' AGL in an area where I may be flying at no lower than 1000' AGL? Generally no. Are there exceptions like in the case of near runways or common heli activity areas? Sure. But I rarely operate in the big city.

BigAl07 · Jun 16, 2019

I think a Perm NOTAM is nothing less than being lazy! When I fly manned aircraft I still check them but if I keep seeing the same one over and over for sUAS operations it's going to get mundane soon. I just think it's a case of being lazy.

Back in the Section 333 days we filed NOTAMS regularly for every flight (as well as monthly reports etc) and we still create one when we are operating in an area where we know there is low and/or heavy manned traffic.

Grumpy · Jun 16, 2019

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
This question is for everyone, but particularly RPIC who are also manned aircraft pilots. As an aviator, do you see any useful purpose for a public safety agency issuing a permanent NOTAM for UAS operations in an 8 mile radius around their city, to avoid issuing NOTAMS for every mission?

I have a real concern re: the FAA approving these permanent notices for what may be a once per month operation.( "Sometime" we may have our UAS airborne, may be day or night, may be somewhere within these 200 square miles )Why bother? I am no longer actively flying for medical reasons so I’d like to hear current pilots’ thoughts on this. If I’m wrong, I don’t mind eating crow (eaten so much it now tastes like lobster).
View attachment 1446 View attachment 1446

BBQ'd crow...mmmmmm!

Fred Garvin · Jun 16, 2019

BigAl07 said:
........Back in the Section 333 days we filed NOTAMS regularly for every flight (as well as monthly reports etc) and we still create one when we are operating in an area where we know there is low and/or heavy manned traffic.......

So it comes from the 333 operations.....

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 17, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
So it comes from the 333 operations.....

Well, for me it comes from my flying days. As an aviator I want to know what's up? (besides birds) in my airspace. My question was directed at the sense and uselessness of UAS operators filing permanent NOTAMs and the FAA going along with it. A permanent drone NOTAM is as good as no NOTAM at all. I have no desire to embark on a crusade; some UAS operators will file them, some will not.

I consider a NOTAM helpful in case some hotshot decides to hot dog through my ops area and hits my UAS. The question will no doubt be, was the UAS in the wrong? Well, I was at authorized altitude, certificated, strobes (day & night), filed a NOTAM...did the UAS pilot did everything s/he could to prevent a collision?

R Martin · Jun 17, 2019

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
Well, for me it comes from my flying days. As an aviator I want to know what's up? (besides birds) in my airspace. My question was directed at the sense and uselessness of UAS operators filing permanent NOTAMs and the FAA going along with it. A permanent drone NOTAM is as good as no NOTAM at all. I have no desire to embark on a crusade; some UAS operators will file them, some will not.

I consider a NOTAM helpful in case some hotshot decides to hot dog through my ops area and hits my UAS. The question will no doubt be, was the UAS in the wrong? Well, I was at authorized altitude, certificated, strobes (day & night), filed a NOTAM...did the UAS pilot did everything s/he could to prevent a collision?

I personally file for every flight I do. I block out an hour before takeoff through an hour after takeoff to account for something going wrong. I fell a permanent NOTAM is just being lazy though. We get a fair number of DROTAMs in this area that are for extended periods of time. I am guessing they are commercial in nature. Still, after seeing the same NOTAM for a few weeks it loses its impact on me.

BigAl07 · Jun 17, 2019

R Martin said:
I personally file for every flight I do. I block out an hour before takeoff through an hour after takeoff to account for something going wrong. I fell a permanent NOTAM is just being lazy though. We get a fair number of DROTAMs in this area that are for extended periods of time. I am guessing they are commercial in nature. Still, after seeing the same NOTAM for a few weeks it loses its impact on me.

BINGO! I think a NOTAM/DROTAM for an extended period of time is normal so long as it's fairly consistently active. I have a construction site that I do 1x a month and it takes roughly 3 days (the director and producer are on scene and review footage and make changes over the course of 3 days) so we file an "Extended" Drotam but we could be flying at any time during those 3 days.

A Perm NOTAM really is just lazy and should be seriously evaluated by the FAA and removed.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 17, 2019

Thank you all for your responses. Looks like I'm not out on left field on my assessment of permanent NOTAMs.

R Martin · Jun 17, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
I’ve never issued a NOTAM. In all the training material I’ve gone through (and it’s a lot) I’ve never once read that there’s a requirement to issue a NOTAM for any of our operations.

So, why do any of you do this? Did I miss something important? Yes, I do understand what they are and I do check them (and TFR’s) before flying, but unless I’ve got an extremely unusual circumstance.......

Fred,

I have two hospitals within a mile or two of me as well as the regional airport that has two flight schools that train foreign nationals. I know that the likelihood of them being below 500 FT AGL is not likely but it is possible and I want to ensure that they are aware that I am operating during a specific time in a specific location. It is not a requirement. It is just good business.

Fred Garvin · Jun 17, 2019

That makes sense with your proximity to those.....plus it gets you name recognition by the folks around you that need to know.....if anything is questioned, they can say “Oh that’s Randal, he knows what he’s doing”.....so no further issues.....

FlyingGary · Jun 22, 2019

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
This question is for everyone, but particularly RPIC who are also manned aircraft pilots. As an aviator, do you see any useful purpose for a public safety agency issuing a permanent NOTAM for UAS operations in an 8 mile radius around their city, to avoid issuing NOTAMS for every mission?

I have a real concern re: the FAA approving these permanent notices for what may be a once per month operation.( "Sometime" we may have our UAS airborne, may be day or night, may be somewhere within these 200 square miles )Why bother? I am no longer actively flying for medical reasons so I’d like to hear current pilots’ thoughts on this. If I’m wrong, I don’t mind eating crow (eaten so much it now tastes like lobster).
View attachment 1446 View attachment 1446

I don't know about permanent NOTAMs, but if you're flying in a military training area, it's a good idea to file one so your bird isn't sucked into a low-flying figher. They fly as low as 200ft in some areas. If you file a NOTAM/DROTAM, they are fine with you flying there as their pilots will get the info in their briefing.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 22, 2019

FlyingGary said:
I don't know about permanent NOTAMs, but if you're flying in a military training area, it's a good idea to file one so your bird isn't sucked into a low-flying figher. They fly as low as 200ft in some areas. If you file a NOTAM/DROTAM, they are fine with you flying there as their pilots will get the info in their briefing.

Agreed, am a certificated commercial pilot, well aware of MTAs and all flight restrictions. My comment was what is the useful purpose for a public safety agency issuing a permanent NOTAM for UAS operations? And the FAA going along.

FlyingGary · Jun 22, 2019

Sorry, responded to the wrong post. I've never had a need for a permanent NOTAM and am curious. What would you use that for?

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 22, 2019

FlyingGary said:
Sorry, responded to the wrong post. I've never had a need for a permanent NOTAM and am curious. What would you use that for?

That is the point. NOTAMS are intended to alert aviators of possible safety hazards to navigation, i.e. balloons, rockets, construction cranes, air shows, etc.
A permanent UAS NOTAM by a public agency is about as useful to a manned aircraft pilot, as altitude above, runway behind, and fuel back in the fuel truck.

"Sometime in the future we may have our UAS airborne, may be day or night, may be somewhere within these hundreds of square miles. You guess!"

FlyingGary · Jun 22, 2019

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
That is the point. NOTAMS are intended to alert aviators of possible safety hazards to navigation, i.e. balloons, rockets, construction cranes, air shows, etc.
A permanent UAS NOTAM by a public agency is about as useful to a manned aircraft pilot, as altitude above, runway behind, and fuel back in the fuel truck.

"Sometime in the future we may have our UAS airborne, may be day or night, may be somewhere within these hundreds of square miles. You guess!"

I see your point now. Thank you. I’m new to commercial flight so my apologies for being dense.