Safe Quad Flights Over People (without Paras)?

[Earnest Ward]

Swiss-based Verity has unveiled a new algorithm that can prevent loss of directional control in the event of a power loss in a propulsion unit (prop, motor, or ESC). Even more exciting, the company says the algorithm can be added to/adopted by any drone brand! Could this facilitate safe/legal flights over people and moving vehicles without waivers or added hardware?

 

[MapMaker53]

Sounds like it would only require a software update. I don't believe the "at little to no cost to the consumer" comment though. Obviously, this company is going to lease their patented technology to the drone companies at a cost to them, which will no doubt will be passed along to the consumer in higher costs. But it is an exciting prospect.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Swiss-based Verity has unveiled a new algorithm that can prevent loss of directional control in the event of a power loss in a propulsion unit (prop, motor, or ESC). Even more exciting, the company says the algorithm can be added to/adopted by any drone brand! Could this facilitate safe/legal flights over people and moving vehicles without waivers or added hardware?

Where's the demo on the M600?
Technology will fail, including this one. That is why the feds are requiring chutes (so far...)

 

[TreeLineView]

Very interesting, but I wonder if DJI or other Manufacturers have any concrete data on the percentage of single motor failures Vs total power loss resulting in crash

 

[R.Perry]

Very interesting, but I wonder if DJI or other Manufacturers have any concrete data on the percentage of single motor failures Vs total power loss resulting in crash

Good question. With total power loss software changes aren't going to make any difference, no power, no computer. Now maybe they have figured out how to partially control a drone that has a single motor failure.

 

[Meta4]

Very interesting, but I wonder if DJI or other Manufacturers have any concrete data on the percentage of single motor failures Vs total power loss resulting in crash

Single motor failure would be extremely rare.
I don't think I've seen a report of one in five years.
Loss of a prop is quite uncommon but I've occasionally heard of those.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

Now maybe they have figured out how to partially control a drone that has a single motor failure.

The algorithm to control those cases is invented many years ago. Then it was considered to be invalid. I imagine that they have modified it to give more security to the operation. True, I see that the drone behaves the same as with the old algorithm. I hope that they have made modifications and not that they have relaunched it without making changes. If then it wasn't valid, now why?

It is true that they sell it as "in case of one motor failure, your drone is not going to fall like a stone and allows you to land it more or less safely for people and properties". They don't sell it as "allows you to keep flying", something I think some here have understood. It is to land without losing the drone due to the free fall. Something that I think is very valid and interesting. But I still miss it, why no manufacturer has implemented it? What has changed so that now they announce it again? ?

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Single motor failure would be extremely rare.
I don't think I've seen a report of one in five years.
Loss of a prop is quite uncommon but I've occasionally heard of those.

Had a P3P motor crapped out on me midflight (2016), bird spiraled all the way down. Gimbal guard across the legs saved the camera, repaired and still flying.

 

[MapMaker53]

The algorithm to control those cases is invented many years ago. Then it was considered to be invalid. I imagine that they have modified it to give more security to the operation. True, I see that the drone behaves the same as with the old algorithm. I hope that they have made modifications and not that they have relaunched it without making changes. If then it wasn't valid, now why? ....... But I still miss it, why no manufacturer has implemented it? What has changed so that now they announce it again? ?

I also recall seeing this a few years ago. I think not many manufacturers were interested in a system that would save a drone from crashing -- because that would reduce replacement sales. But now that the FAA has regulations in place and those purchasing drones want to be able to fly over people, this company is hoping their algorithm is the solution and that drone manufacturers will now want to lease the technology to achieve additional FAA approval. Just a guess.

 

[BigAl07]

Had a P3P motor crapped out on me midflight (2016), bird spiraled all the way down. Gimbal guard across the legs saved the camera, repaired and still flying.

Ditto! I had an off brand unit have a motor "detach" from the arm and severed itself completely from the aircraft. Best part was I had witnesses and at some point there was a fuzzy cell phone video of it. Sadly I had no gimbal guard and the impact was quite catastrophic and the only thing saved was the proprietary Tx which was useless LOL!

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Ditto! I had an off brand unit have a motor "detach" from the arm and severed itself completely from the aircraft. Best part was I had witnesses and at some point there was a fuzzy cell phone video of it. Sadly I had no gimbal guard and the impact was quite catastrophic and the only thing saved was the proprietary Tx which was useless LOL!

The reason there are rules, s**t happens. As you know very well, being a manned AC pilot, if one flies long enough stuff will happen. That is why it's called experience. I get quite frustrated with the bunch that believes drones are failure proof and ignore the rules. I fly expecting the thing to drop at any moment thus my abundance of caution...just like I flew expecting my engine to quit at any minute (the way we were trained).

 

[ArrUnTuS]

The reason there are rules, s**t happens. As you know very well, being a manned AC pilot, if one flies long enough stuff will happen. That is why it's called experience. I get quite frustrated with the bunch that believes drones are failure proof and ignore the rules. I fly expecting the thing to drop at any moment thus my abundance of caution...just like I flew expecting my engine to quit at any minute (the way we were trained).

And I think you're doing what we should all be doing, I think so myself. This is not a car that breaks down and stops and nothing happens (if you move away on the verge is enough). Here a drone suffers an incident and at the very least you run out of drone, it's the best thing that can happen to you, no harm to people or property.

 

[BigAl07]

The reason there are rules, s**t happens. As you know very well, being a manned AC pilot, if one flies long enough stuff will happen. That is why it's called experience. I get quite frustrated with the bunch that believes drones are failure proof and ignore the rules. I fly expecting the thing to drop at any moment thus my abundance of caution...just like I flew expecting my engine to quit at any minute (the way we were trained).

I like to call flying that like, "Flying like a Professional".... Expect the worse case and prepare for it. when it happens it's not nearly as traumatic.

Always fly in such a way that a total failure will ONLY result in loss of aircraft. With our non-redundant aircraft (several Single Points of Failure) the odds of a total failure is greatly increased.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

I like to call flying that like, "Flying like a Professional".... Expect the worse case and prepare for it. when it happens it's not nearly as traumatic.

Always fly in such a way that a total failure will ONLY result in loss of aircraft. With our non-redundant aircraft (several Single Points of Failure) the odds of a total failure is greatly increased.

"Flying like a Professional". The root cause of my failure and subsequent resignation as UAS chief pilot at the PD...I wanted to build an aviation unit (M600), they just wanted to fly drones....

 

[BigAl07]

"Flying like a Professional". The root cause of my failure and subsequent resignation as UAS chief pilot at the PD...I wanted to build an aviation unit (M600), they just wanted to fly drones....

And that is EXACTLY what a Public Safety Dept needs to be doing.... with the insane amount of scrutiny and Govt mandates they should be operating it like a SPACE PROGRAM!!

 

[R.Perry]

There is an optimistic side to drones crashes, at least the pilot isn't in it. I wonder how does someone train for complete loss of control of their drone? We can train of loss of GPS, display going blank, and test the RTH function, but if it goes dead stick you just watch it fall out of the sky and pick up the pieces.
I respectfully disagree with flying like it will fail any moment, if it does you deal with the problem the best you can. To me that would make me a nervous wreck. I think the key is situational awareness, meaning even if you are flying an autonomous flight you are focused on the aircraft, surroundings, and basically keeping ones head out of, well you know where.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

There is an optimistic side to drones crashes, at least the pilot isn't in it. I wonder how does someone train for complete loss of control of their drone? We can train of loss of GPS, display going blank, and test the RTH function, but if it goes dead stick you just watch it fall out of the sky and pick up the pieces.
I respectfully disagree with flying like it will fail any moment, if it does you deal with the problem the best you can. To me that would make me a nervous wreck. I think the key is situational awareness, meaning even if you are flying an autonomous flight you are focused on the aircraft, surroundings, and basically keeping ones head out of, well you know where.

"but if it goes dead stick you just watch it fall out of the sky and pick up the pieces."
Absolutely. That is why it's critical to follow the rules, over people, VLOS, etc.
"To me that would make me a nervous wreck." Well that's exactly how I was trained to fly single engine airplanes; to be prepared, have a potential landing field within sight, be prepared to go over the engine failure checklist; mixture, carb heat, fuel, radio, etc. Never thought of myself as a nervous wreck; just a competent aviator who knew things could go from honky dory to s**t quickly.

 

[Florida Drone Supply]

Based on this threads topic description, the ability to "recover" from a single ESC/motor function, does not make it safe to fly over people, in my opinion. A parachute with an independent flight controller can accommodate many more types of failures (i.e. obstacle strike, total exhaustion of battery, etc.) than a single motor failure.

 

[Earnest Ward]

Based on this threads topic description, the ability to "recover" from a single ESC/motor function, does not make it safe to fly over people, in my opinion. A parachute with an independent flight controller can accommodate many more types of failures (i.e. obstacle strike, total exhaustion of battery, etc.) than a single motor failure.

Whether this algorithm is adequate to mitigate the risks involved in flight over people or not remains to be seen and will be decided by the FAA.

However, as a Part 61/135 pilot who has experienced forced landings after power failure I'm all for anything that will enable me (and others) attitude and directional control of the aircraft all the way to the ground. And this is one significant weakness in the design of most current multi-rotor sUAS.

As for parachutes, the only issues I have are (a) you must have adequate altitude to deploy, and (b) once a chute is deployed the PIC's role is relegated to that of a VO.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

I think it's a tactic to sell the system, I think it's good and I consider it useful but it doesn't enable it to fly over people. It is valid for not destroying our drone in free fall, but of controlled flight it has rather little. It can be called a softer landing and bearing in mind that it would only be valid for VLOS. If you don't see the aircraft, it lands smoother but you don't know if it's going to do it over someone's toupee ????