Skyward vs Airmap: Skyward requires FAA authorization beyond airspace radius?

Vernon Fowlkes · May 18, 2018

I'm confused. I notice that Skyward.io shows the full LAANC grid out beyond the controlled airspace radius. Airmap.io does not. See attached screenshots from each. In Skyward, my example location is flagged as requiring FAA authorization to fly, though it is outside the radius of the MOB Class C airspace, because the grid extends beyond the radius into my area. Airmap indicates the opposite. My understanding is if I'm outside the controlled airspace radius, no FAA authorization is required. Thoughts?

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 18, 2018

Just my opinion here, but I never rely on these apps to determine where controlled airspace is. Sectional charts serve that purpose well. FAM grids are squares and on the edge of the controlled airspace they will bleed outside the controlled airspace (if I'm understanding your question). The FAM grids are not the controlling factor, the controlled airspace markings on the sectional are. Can you post the exact location of your flight?

Vernon Fowlkes · May 18, 2018

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
Just my opinion here, but I never rely on these apps to determine where controlled airspace is. Sectional charts serve that purpose well. FAM grids are squares and on the edge of the controlled airspace they will bleed outside the controlled airspace (if I'm understanding your question). The FAM grids are not the controlling factor, the controlled airspace markings on the sectional are. Can you post the exact location of your flight?

Thanks, Luis. Completely agree, but since these apps are the providing LAANC approval/denial in real time, they're kind of a necessary evil, if you will. They need to get their 'stuff' together. In fact, for the same airspace I've had to report to Airmap that they are erroneously not providing LAANC because they have the airspace marked as Class E2, when clearly, per the sectional, it is strictly Class C. They say they are "working on it".

Regarding Skyward and the FAM grids, I suppose it doesn't hurt to request LAANC approval and proceed anyway.

Thanks again.

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 18, 2018

Yeah, I gave up on phone klunky apps too small for me to read. Whenever I need a LAANC aproval I sit at home at my PC and get it via Skyward, after confirming on my Sectional first. I'm an old manned ac pilot, old habits die hard

. Would you mind giving me the location just for my education? PM if you want.

Vernon Fowlkes · May 18, 2018

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
Yeah, I gave up on phone klunky apps too small for me to read. Whenever I need a LAANC aproval I sit at home at my PC and get it via Skyward, after confirming on my Sectional first. I'm an old manned ac pilot, old habits die hard . Would you mind giving me the location just for my education? PM if you want.

I hear you. I much prefer the Skyward PC app anyway.

My location I used as an example is in the 600 block of Tuthill Lane, Mobile, AL, 36608

Here's a shot of the Sectional and my location example is roughly where the crudely drawn circled red X is.

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 18, 2018

As you knew, you are outside the Class C Sfc to 4,200 inner cake layer; and well within the 1,500 to 4200 MSL layer; also outside BFM's Class D, making your UAS flight perfectly within regulations. Looking at the approximate ground elevation in the area, you can easily hit 400 AGL and still be below the floor of the outer cake layer.

The FAM grids are meaningless outside controlled airspace, because the are square they will never quite fit the circular edges of Class A,B,C airspace..

If I am wrong I'm sure someone will jump in and correct this answer.

Chris Anson · May 19, 2018

I had the same question a while back and I contacted the FAA local office. They said that the sectionals are the authority for determining airspace.

Dave Pitman · May 19, 2018

As is the consensous here, official controlled airspace is depicted on sectionals. The AFM Grids are rectangles so they don't necessarily show the true outer limit of the controlled airspace.
If your flight area indicates you are inside of a grid but outside of the airspace depicted on the sectional, you DO NOT need to get approval.

BTW, best to use Skyward over AirMap. Skyward's underlying business model is transparent and straight forward. AirMap on the other hand is actually working to make airspace more restrictive and complicated in order to profit.

If you have a few minutes check out this video/podcast from last year which summarizes the reasons to be very skeptical of AirMap. Spread the word on AirMap. They prefer to keep their motives secret.

Lobbying Spending Database-Holland & Knight, 2016 | OpenSecrets
Lobbying Spending Database-Holland & Knight, 2017 | OpenSecrets

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 20, 2018

Agreed. I am an aviator (since 1969) and only rely on Sectionals. For LAANC approvals, Skyward is free and simple to use.

A basic truth has escaped too many 107 pilots; Sectionals and only sectional are the official controlled airspace reference (that is why the feds required the 107 so you'd know how to read one) ; quickie apps are for hobbyists.

Dave Pitman · May 20, 2018

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
Agreed. I am an aviator (since 1969) and only rely on Sectionals.

I think many are either just lazy or can't quite believe, for some reason, that a simple piece of paper, or digital copy of one, can actually be the authority when there are all of these wiz-bang apps everywhere. For us, (PP SEL since 1996 for me) it is easy. We need to remind others every chance we get.

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 20, 2018

LOL. You be right...

Moosewax · May 20, 2018

Yup going to hop on the stick to the sectionals train.

Airmap is garbage IMO. Find too many mistakes, incorrect airspace delineations etc.

If you can pay, Foreflight is legit for determining airspace.

Otherwise www.skyvector.com and Google Earth with a sectional layer, and using the Digital Chart Supplement Chart Supplements – Basic Search are your friends.

I will use Skyward too over Airmap for LAANC.

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 20, 2018

There you go. Too many UAS "pilots" want the title w/o doing the work. Anyone who wants to navigate the national airspace w/o learning Sectionals is like a sailboat captain wanting to sail around the world relying on an app, " 'cause maritime charts are too hard (whining)..."
Or as we say in Arizona; all hat and no cattle.

Vernon Fowlkes · May 20, 2018

Good conversation guys. Thanks for jumping in. All good info and confirms my suspicions about Airmap considering that I, an "old guy" newbie of sorts [recently retired and taking my photography/videography hobby commercial (when I feel like it ... did I mention I was retired?

)], after reading the Sectional, was confident enough to report to Airmap their app screwed up regarding one of my home airspaces.

S F Ogden · Jun 1, 2018

I rely on ForeFlight’s sectionals. With the changeable map layers its pretty amazing to see the airspace with the topo or satellite map views. No ambiguity about location relative to airspace. In the FAA airspace authorization I recently obtained, they specified I comply with maximum altitudes on the UAS facilities grids. Pretty important to see a map with more detail than a sectional to see which grid square I’m in.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Jun 1, 2018

Were I still flying I'd pay for ForeFlight, pretty sweet. I come from the days of folding a sectional over 5 times and trying to fit it AND your notes and flight plan and a sandwich all into your kneeboard.

I still can't believe the let pilots today use a freaking IPad to "navigate." If you never been lost, and dove to read a sign on an airport hangar, you ain't no pilot. They probably don't even know what a Jeppsen "EB-6 computer" is....

mdurbanek · Jun 21, 2018

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
Were I still flying I'd pay for ForeFlight, pretty sweet. I come from the days of folding a sectional over 5 times and trying to fit it AND your notes and flight plan and a sandwich all into your kneeboard.

I still can't believe the let pilots today use a freaking IPad to "navigate." If you never been lost, and dove to read a sign on an airport hangar, you ain't no pilot. They probably don't even know what a Jeppsen "EB-6 computer" is....

OK, Luis, now I am very afraid...especially with my eyesight!

dronecyclops · Jun 21, 2018

Seems I am in line with most of you in using sectionals my app choice is skyvector for now

BigAl07 · Jun 26, 2018

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
hey probably don't even know what a Jeppsen "EB-6 computer" is....

Talk about OLD SCHOOL! I was just looking at my EB-6 "computer" this weekend. It was in an old flight bag and I had to explain it because it makes no sense in today's world... that is until your batteries run out in everything else you have in the cockpit

Fontinalis · Jul 16, 2018

Old school or new school, you are going to need more than a sectional in your hand to get approval to fly in controlled airspace. You're going to need one of the apps.