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The good, the bad and the ugly- Remote ID Proposal PRM

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Ok, im working my way through this document and reading all of your posts. I am very new to this industry as I just got my 107 in Oct of this year and dont have a whole bunch of hours logged. But as I read all of this I am very worried about my future direction in this ever growing Drone industry. Does it seem that they are trying to squeeze out all the little guys and hobbyists just to leave all of the flying to big biz?

Congrats on your Part 107.

Don't run out and spend a fortune on setting up a small business until you can prove you can make a profit at it. I see so many "UAS Start Ups" that vanish in under a year because they are started out with lots of loans/Debt right off the bat. These companies buy the best gear, new car/truck, wrap/brand/logo everything including the house cat, and get out the gate looking like a million dollars. Then when it's time to start paying the bills they don't have enough INCOME to surpass their expenses and the road is short and painful. Go Slow and Pay As You Go!!

Here is my "Take" on what's happening and it's a multilayered approach:

  • a) Yes they are indeed making way for the Big Guys to be able to operate in our environment but in such a way to hopefully make it safer for everyone involved.
  • b) As an industry we have done a horrible job in "Policing Ourselves" and really left the door wide open for Govt to step in and handle it for us. Not good but what option do they have? We see so many operators (hobby and rogue commercial) flying crazy distances (and bragging about it), flying near/over people and cars, flying in areas not allowed (restricted airspace etc), and flying in such a manner to be a danger to manned aircraft. It's almost epidemic seeing how many different infractions happen each and every day just on the Pilots Forums. Imagine how much bigger the problem is because Pilots is only a small portion of the total # of operations going on each and every day. Some people are smart enough to not post it online for everyone to see but it's still happening and still being reported heavily.
  • c) BVLOS is a huge BUZZ word right now. I know many people "hobbyist and small business operators alike" have been screaming how much they want... no NEED this to be an option. Unfortunately few stopped long enough to realize what kind of "system" will be required to allow BVLOS to be done safely. I see it as one of those instances where wise people say, "Be careful what you ask for... you might accidentally get it!" It's not as simple as submitting a request for § 107.31 and getting it granted. There are so many requests for § 107.31 that the FAA must try and get something into place to facilitate this being a possibility but it's not going to be easy, fun, or budget friendly I'm afraid.
.......but as a pilot who is looking to do some realty work, rooftop inspection, and other very low altitude work(maybe agriculture?) I dont see the need to have to transmit or need ADS-B. Perhaps the current rules and regs are sufficient for many small businesses and pilots who don't require BVLOS flights. Maybe leave all of this to the large energy companies, Amazon, and anyone else who needs/wants BVLOS flights for the needs of their businesses. Just my thoughts!

You mention "maybe agriculture" and the first thing I thought, "Does he realize how important BVLOS could be for someone doing hundreds of acres of Ag inspection work? When Time = $$ you're going to want to cover as much area from one location as is possible and not have to relocate for every flight to maintain VLOS." That's a BIG one for the § 107.31 requests going into the FAA.


The current rules & regs are not sufficient because so many people are going above and beyond the current regs on a daily basis. So many times we hear, "If they aren't going to enforce the rules then why would we try to follow them?" And there is some merit to that thought process simply because human nature is to push rules as far as we can until we get busted. No enforcement = No getting busted.

What you're suggesting is a multi-tiered Part 107 system. While I think it has some value I don't see that option being viable for a long time. Part 107 is still so young and new it's not going to get a major face-lift until it's much older.... if THEN.

One good thing to note is that, at least some FAA offices are greatly increasing their UAS manpower. I don't know where the $$ is coming from but some offices are training new UAS people right now. I know one such office that I have worked with and talk with has expanded their UAS division 300% with more slated to start in the next few weeks. I'm hoping this helps for Field Enforcement going forward. I'd much rather see additional fines/charges etc for those breaking the current regs rather than additional regs placed on the rest of us who are following them.

The biggest flaw I see in your suggestion of "Maybe leave all of this to the large energy companies, Amazon, and anyone else who needs/wants BVLOS flights for the needs of their businesses." is if we are all operating in the same airspace how does the BVLOS aircraft know where your aircraft is to Avoid a Conflict? Remember they can only see the DATA provided to them remotely and if you're not transmitting location and Alt they don't know you're there and no way to avoid you. You might be looking down at your display and not have any idea they are in the area until it's too late. It's really an All or Nothing type of process.

Me personally, I don't need BVLOS except for some Emergency Services type work. Most of my flying is done within 500' of where I'm standing so I don't want this extra set of hurdles and burdens. None-the-less if you're going to play in the NAS you've got to be playing from the same rule book as everyone else or you become a liability and danger to everyone else.

In Emergency Services operations we are operating in a controlled environment where no other aircraft are allowed to "legally" be. I'm sure all of this is going to screw up our Emergency Services operations as well.
 

“if we are all operating in the same airspace how does the BVLOS aircraft know where your aircraft is to Avoid a Conflict?”


Im not sure how they will make BVLOS work in class G anyways, since not all manned aircraft are required to have ADS-B out in class G.
 
Im not sure how they will make BVLOS work in class G anyways, since not all manned aircraft are required to have ADS-B out in class G.

I have only read the summary. But by that, it looks like this isn't meant to address real-time avoidance issues at all. It is meant to make the operator of any given drone "findable", either in real time or in the past IF someone goes looking.

Operating in a BVLOS condition, or any other manned airspace conflict issue, will still require more than remote ID. And, they specifically state that it will NOT be ADS-B out.
 
"Some 393 people were killed in civil aviation accidents in the United States in 2018, up 13 percent from the 347 killed the previous year, according to preliminary data from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)."

My opinion, spend the $500 million (will probably ending up being over $1 billion) where the deaths are occurring. This isn't about safety it's about policing and preparing the way for large corporations to dominate the airspace where drones fly for commercial purposes. The "public safety" mantra is used as the basis to pass laws that restrict our freedoms.
 
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I'm guessing that the legacy equipment will be worked through the apps. New equipment will a form of ADS-B transponders built-in. At least we won't be paying the outrageous prices for the equipment that GA pays.

If you read the proposal, installing/retrofitting ADSB-out or any type of transponder is specifically excluded...as it would overload the system for manned aircraft.
 
With so many years ahead before compliance is enforced, I’m not getting bent on any of these initial proposal details just yet.....let’s see what eventually sticks and what doesn’t.....

Except the one common detail: The Remote ID Service Provider. This worries me. Pay to Play.....how much is this gonna cost? Initial offerings might be quite exclusive, with little selection and competition. How are they going to monetize this? Expensive monthly subscriptions? Pay per flight like some flight insurance policies? The FAA is creating a business sector that “sells airspace access”.....
 
So really at this point, best to take the time to read it, understand it, and note which parts are concerning so each person can formulate a cohesive, intelligent response to submit to the FAA. It may be questionable how effective, or even if the FAA will seriously consider comments....but if you don’t comment then it’s certain they won’t listen.

I do a lot more reading than writing on this forum. This NPRM has prompted me to write. This is a big deal and will disrupt commerce as written. I agree with the premise but it needs a lot of work. It will effectively limit the existing suas fleet to a 400 foot sphere around the transmitter. Eventually all commercial operators will need to replace their aircraft to be compliant.

So as Fred pointed out, the most effective thing we as a community can do is study it and formulate and submit a response to the FAA. If enough of suas professionals respond then perhaps the tail can wag the dog.
 
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Here is a great article written by our very own Vic Moss @mossphotography

He tells it like it is and with experience and a vast knowledge of our industry under his belt. Vic isn't against Remote ID but he is for a smart approach and this article is the icing on the cake.

 
That’s a shame I just finished reading Vic’s I wish I would have printed it out first.
 
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I'm late to this thread so I apologize if I am repeating anything. My quick glance at the FAA proposal suggests that most drones could be brought up to date with a simple app upgrade. The ground station app knows the location of the drone, so it could easily rebroadcast the position to some FAA tracking service via the interweb. There will be cases where a person is out of range of the closest cell tower, but those situations are less and less.

My initial worry is self serving ... I build my own drones (mostly fixed wing uav's) and design my own flight controller and ground station app. Will the FAA system be accessible/easy for me to connect with? Or will it be locked down and "secure" and any one who wants to connect with their app will have to jump through hoops, applications, reviews, etc.

Or maybe I could envision a simple standalone app where I just call it up and say "I'm doing a 15 minute flight here, now, go..." Then I wouldn't need any mods to any drone or any flight control/planning app.
 
I'm only partially through the "unpublished" version of the proposal but a few things quickly stand out.

A troubling aspect of this proposal has ALL drones requiring registration to be equipped with a remote ID device. Full scale aircraft do not have to meet such a requirement as only those that will be operated in airspace that requires ATC communications and permissions (controlled-restricted airspace) require automatic ID equipment. Older aircraft lacking an electrical system are not required to have transponders or radios unless and until they are operated in airspace that requires such equipment. The vast majority of drones are not flown in controlled-restricted airspace.

A second issue is what certainly appears to be a "pay to play" access system. Doing that is pure "privatization" of the airspace and ATC system, something the AOPA fought hard to have removed from the previous and currently active airspace authorization act.

A third problem, and a very big problem, is the certification of remote ID equipment. As written, the proposal mandates that the manufacturer is responsible for providing remote ID equipment, and that such equipment meets a currently unknown/unpublished federal standard. This requirement would require all drones currently in use be returned to the manufacturer for retrofit and certification, including the DJI units equipped with DJI's version of ADS-B IN as what DJI has produced is in no way certified to meet a federal standard, nor was it installed by a certified avionics facility or technician. This proposal effectively grounds every drone currently in use, and every drone sitting unsold on the shelves, as not one of the consumer manufacturers will be willing to take their products back to retrofit new, certified equipment, even if that was possible. From this moment in time, until an equipment standard is published, the business of making and selling drones is dead in this country, and all those that have been sold to date have a value of $0.00 going forward. (This may explain why so few new products have been released to the market over this past year) Perhaps there is some value in parts but new drones meeting remote ID requirements will likely not incorporate pretty much anything currently in use.

Internet access is another big issue. For you folks living in and near major population centers it's not a big deal but there are a great many people that live and work in the country, where the web access is simply not available shortly after leaving their homes. Cell service is spotty with calls frequently being dropped or impossible to initiate. Will "country operators" be required to provide their own satellite link in order to fly?

One more issue is the 400' distance sphere. This proposal effectively creates a maximum operating distance limitation that currently does not exist.

As we have been deemed "pilots", flying "aircraft" perhaps incorporating a set of requirements that align with the requirements imposed on full scale aircraft is in order. Full scale pilots are not required to "register" every flight. Full scale is not required to equip every aircraft that can be flown with ADS-B or a transponder. Full scale aircraft and pilots are not limited to a pre established maximum operating distance. If the FAA is truly concerned about public and airspace safety they would be more focused on full scale as each manned private aircraft has the potential to generate vastly more damage to our country's public safety and infrastructure than our drones do.

You can bet I'll be responding to the NPRM. I can only hope that every drone operator does too. Drone operators that know full scale pilots should put in all the effort they can to get full scale pilots to respond to the NPRM in favor of our viewpoint.
 
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I'm only partially through the "unpublished" version of the proposal but a few things quickly stand out.

A troubling aspect of this proposal has ALL drones requiring registration to be equipped with a remote ID device. Full scale aircraft do not have to meet such a requirement as only those that will be operated in airspace that requires ATC communications and permissions (controlled-restricted airspace) require automatic ID equipment. Older aircraft lacking an electrical system are not required to have transponders or radios unless and until they are operated in airspace that requires such equipment. The vast majority of drones are not flown in controlled-restricted airspace.

A second issue is what certainly appears to be a "pay to play" access system. Doing that is pure "privatization" of the airspace and ATC system, something the AOPA fought hard to have removed from the previous and currently active airspace authorization act.

A third problem, and a very big problem, is the certification of remote ID equipment. As written, the proposal mandates that the manufacturer is responsible for providing remote ID equipment, and that such equipment meets a currently unknown/unpublished federal standard. This requirement would require all drones currently in use be returned to the manufacturer for retrofit and certification, including the DJI units equipped with DJI's version of ADS-B IN as what DJI has produced is in no way certified to meet a federal standard, nor was it installed by a certified avionics facility or technician. This proposal effectively grounds every drone currently in use, and every drone sitting unsold on the shelves, as not one of the consumer manufacturers will be willing to take their products back to retrofit new, certified equipment, even if that was possible. From this moment in time, until an equipment standard is published, the business of making and selling drones is dead in this country, and all those that have been sold to date have a value of $0.00 going forward. (This may explain why so few new products have been released to the market over this past year) Perhaps there is some value in parts but new drones meeting remote ID requirements will likely not incorporate pretty much anything currently in use.

Internet access is another big issue. For you folks living in and near major population centers it's not a big deal but there are a great many people that live and work in the country, where the web access is simply not available shortly after leaving their homes. Cell service is spotty with calls frequently being dropped or impossible to initiate. Will "country operators" be required to provide their own satellite link in order to fly?

One more issue is the 400' distance sphere. This proposal effectively creates a maximum operating distance limitation that currently does not exist.

As we have been deemed "pilots", flying "aircraft" perhaps incorporating a set of requirements that align with the requirements imposed on full scale aircraft is in order. Full scale pilots are not required to "register" every flight. Full scale is not required to equip every aircraft that can be flown with ADS-B or a transponder. Full scale aircraft and pilots are not limited to a pre established maximum operating distance. If the FAA is truly concerned about public and airspace safety they would be more focused on full scale as each manned private aircraft has the potential to generate vastly more damage to our country's public safety and infrastructure than our drones do.

You can bet I'll be responding to the NPRM. I can only hope that every drone operator does too. Drone operators that know full scale pilots should put in all the effort they can to get full scale pilots to respond to the NPRM in favor of our viewpoint.
The same as I read/take it......Could one imagine a manned aircrafts GPS data being dumped every few seconds to a third party server simply for WHAT IF? Where is the AOPA on all of this? Is a UAS not a AIRCRAFT? Like stated, most UAS fly outside of controlled airspace anyway, like some civil aircraft without all the avionics. Are we not going to monitor ALL AIRCRAFT near real-time JUST IN CASE? Privacy laws? Surveillance? Those items WE as Part 107 pilots are to adhere to. The whole thing stinks. Not to mention some of us that fly for fire service. What about mentioning WAIVERS to having the said equipment?

Guess we’ll have to monitor our future as Part 107 pilots and scrap our perfectly good AIRCRAFT.

Being behind the curve is simply cutting the curve in half. Lack of proactivity is simply reactionary.
 
Those that visit other drone, RC, or photography forums should implore everyone to read and respond to the NPRM. Although drone operators appear loath to create and join an organization, responding to the NPRM can be done as individuals.
 
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One more issue is the 400' distance sphere. This proposal effectively creates a maximum operating distance limitation that currently does not exist.

This is only for the second method of compliance. To me it almost seems to be directed at the hobbyist flying a MR casually. The first method is clearly aimed at the commercial segment. The third is a stop gap for model airplanes while that segment figures a way to comply with full broadcast, which is the ultimate goal of the FAA for all sUAS, Part 107 or Section 349.
 
Those that visit other drone, RC, or photography forums should implore everyone to read and respond to the NPRM. Although drone operators appear loath to create and join an organization, responding to the NPRM can be done as individuals.


All I have seen today across a wide number of forums are outraged comments largely based on what the author saw some other guy post someplace. I agree, people need to actually read the NPRM so they can make comments on the actual document.
 

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