Too Close

[R.Perry]

This morning I have video to shoot a short distance from the Modesto, Ca airport. Actually almost in line with runway 28 Left.
Had an approval to fly up to 99 feet. Tower notified inbound aircraft that a drone operation was active and advised all aircraft to make a short downwind and turn base before the golf course.

So here comes a brand new pilot on a straight in way below the glideslope for 28 Left. Tower even tells him he is low on the glide slop.
Next thing I hear is this guy going right over my head and low. He jumps on the radio and tells the tower that I must be flying at least 250 AGL
I don't think this guy was expecting a drone pilot to be listening to the tower traffic.

You can see the shadow of the plane at the top of the picture. Notice the shadows on the structures, the sun is in the southern sky.
This guy deliberately overflew me and low.

Well I finished my short little video and headed for the Modesto airport.
The pilot was gone by the time I got there, but had a long talk with flight services and the manager of that rented the plane to this guy.
I never went over 75 feet on this flight.

 

[adm_geomatics]

There's bad pilots on both sides. We had to file a complaint with the Georgetown Municipal Airport because many of their pilots have been buzzing one of our job sites. The west half of the site is in a 200ft cell so that is what I fly. One of these idiots actually did it while I was there and was easily below me so I just let the drone hover and then called the airport immediately. I talked to the site superintendent and he said they do it all the time. Even flying over the Toll Road on our east boundary that is a 300ft cell. They are 1.2 miles out and heading perpendicular to the runway. They assured me they would put a stop to this. I won't hold my breath.

 

[R.Perry]

Considering his approach was for 28 left, he should have still been at about 300 feet. There is two sides to low approaches, it lessens your safety margin. I had been guilty of making low approaches due to the fact I was a crop duster and many of the landing sites were short dirt roads. However I learned my lesson and now fly at the top of the glide slop.

 

[R Martin]

So here comes a brand new pilot on a straight in way below the glideslope for 28 Left. Tower even tells him he is low on the glide slop.
Next thing I hear is this guy going right over my head and low. He jumps on the radio and tells the tower that I must be flying at least 250 AGL
I don't think this guy was expecting a drone pilot to be listening to the tower traffic.

Well I finished my short little video and headed for the Modesto airport.
The pilot was gone by the time I got there, but had a long talk with flight services and the manager of that rented the plane to this guy.
I never went over 75 feet on this flight.

I think we have all been there and it sucks. But we are still the one that have to bend. Regulations require it. Common sense dictates it. It is the way it is. Of course posting the video to YouTube is entirely acceptable with whatever details you might have.

 

[R.Perry]

I think we have all been there and it sucks. But we are still the one that have to bend. Regulations require it. Common sense dictates it. It is the way it is. Of course posting the video to YouTube is entirely acceptable with whatever details you might have.

collision avoidance is the responsibility of both pilots, I heard he was cleared to land and didn't hear the plane until he overflew me. He should have headed the approach directive given by the tower but didn't. He was way too low for a normal approach.
You are correct it is my responsibility to avoid other aircraft no question, but the reality is this guy was just being a jerk.

 

[clolsonus]

Yeah, from personal experience, you hear the airplane miles before you can see it. See and avoid usually starts with hear and avoid. Unless they are 100' above the deck when they jump on you -- at which point you hear and see them simultaneously and you have almost zero time to react. I had a piper cub buzz our RC field about 200' AGL when I was flying one of my for-fun airplanes and I was able to duck below the treeline just fine, but it was one of those WTH moments.

 

[R Martin]

collision avoidance is the responsibility of both pilots, I heard he was cleared to land and didn't hear the plane until he overflew me. He should have headed the approach directive given by the tower but didn't. He was way too low for a normal approach.
You are correct it is my responsibility to avoid other aircraft no question, but the reality is this guy was just being a jerk.

Well I am relieved to know that Texas does not have the monopoly on those type. You're a better man for the experience.

 

[R.Perry]

In reality a plane like the Cessna 150 doesn't make a lot of noise on approach, and as you said, depends on altitude. Not only that, my altitude was 75 feet.

 

[John Githens]

Yeah, from personal experience, you hear the airplane miles before you can see it. See and avoid usually starts with hear and avoid. Unless they are 100' above the deck when they jump on you -- at which point you hear and see them simultaneously and you have almost zero time to react. I had a piper cub buzz our RC field about 200' AGL when I was flying one of my for-fun airplanes and I was able to duck below the treeline just fine, but it was one of those WTH moments.

Great comment. "Hear and avoid" is what I must normally do in local areas which are typically near tall trees and hills. Ears as crude radar. However one memorable day a pilot cut engine and glided through what would have been my programmed flight path at 100 ft AGL. I saw it. Did not hear it. Then the pilot powered up and flew along, maybe knowing that they were way too close to expensive homes in their sight-seeing flight and didn't want to trigger a noise complaint. Meanwhile... I'm thinking huh, "we" dodged a bullet this time, so to speak. After that I relocated to have better LOS near the area of interest, just in case it happened again. And it reinforced a goal to avoid operating more than barely above treetop level if at all possible. Risky business, operating a drone system.

 

[Ajkm]

I don’t see any “deliberate” objectionable action by this pilot. You yourself describe him as “brand new”, and it is not the easiest thing to get the right altitudes on a long straight in approach - this is why we’re taught to use the pattern, or at least base and final. Even though tower tells him he is “low on glide slope” if he’s “brand new” it’s possible he wasn’t able to adjust his flight path in time, so just continued.

 

[aerialimagery]

I don’t see any “deliberate” objectionable action by this pilot. You yourself describe him as “brand new”, and it is not the easiest thing to get the right altitudes on a long straight in approach - this is why we’re taught to use the pattern, or at least base and final. Even though tower tells him he is “low on glide slope” if he’s “brand new” it’s possible he wasn’t able to adjust his flight path in time, so just continued.

What is objectionable is that the pilot reported a drone that was flying at 75' agl to be at 250'.

 

[R.Perry]

Two things, the pilot didn't follow the controller advice. Where he overflew me is 1.2 miles from the 28 left runway. He should have been a minimum of 800 AGL at that distance. I was told he just got his private license recently. Being a new pilot doesn't excuse his actions. My guess is he overflew me below 200 feet and any pilot knows that is way too low at that distance to the runway.
His comment regarding my altitude to me implied he new exactly what he was doing, being stupid.
I have flown into Modesto airport probably hundreds of times over the years. I use to have a bad habit of making low approaches, but nothing like that, and never had the Modesto tower comment on my approaches.

 

[SanCap]

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Having a "long talk with flight services and the manager that rented the plane to this guy" is not helping our plight as uas pilots. See and avoid are the regulations, no ifs ands or butts, you were visiting their airspace.

 

[aerialimagery]

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Having a "long talk with flight services and the manager that rented the plane to this guy" is not helping our plight as uas pilots. See and avoid are the regulations, no ifs ands or butts, you were visiting their airspace.

The pilot made a false statement to the tower about the altitude of the drone. What if that false statement had been believed and they chose to act upon it? There is no regulation that says a drone pilot has to be quiet if a manned pilot lies about his agl. I think flying at 75 feet a mile from the runway is already in an "avoid" location.

 

[R.Perry]

Maybe I am over reacting to the incident, and I will always avoid other aircraft. I had authorization for flights with a max altitude of 99 feet. in that area, and ATC even notified inbound aircraft of the drone operations. If that pilot hadn't accused me of flying well over what I was authorized to I wouldn't have taken the time to visit the airport.
Drones get enough negative press, what if some news reported had heard that, the next thing you would have heard on the nightly news is something like "a near miss by a drone flying close to the Modesto airport". If a UAV pilot is in the wrong they need to admit it, but if not, they need to defend their actions.
As for me, if I screwed up bad enough I could not only lose my 107 but my pilots license.

 

[DVA]

Sounds like the Pilot was trying to cover his rear.

 

[DJIPete]

I make it a habit to listen, then avoid. There are all kinds of pilots out there, some reasonable some are liars.

 

[adm_geomatics]

What altitude should a plane be 2.2 mi from the runway? Like a little single engine Piper.

 

[R.Perry]

What altitude should a plane be 2.2 mi from the runway? Like a little single engine Piper.

Two miles from the runway, 1000 feet minimum if over a city. The normal glideslope angle is 3 degrees.
There are two types of approaches, visual and instrument. On visual the pilot is to adjust his glideslope based on the visual approach indicator known as VASIS. Basically if the pilot is too high the lights appear amber, if on the glideslope they are green, and too low they are red. There are various types of approach indicators but that's the basics.

 

[R.Perry]

What altitude should a plane be 2.2 mi from the runway? Like a little single engine Piper.

The type of plane really doesn't matter. It is the same for a jet as a piper cub.