Visual line of sight ?

PatR · Sep 27, 2019

Thanks[emoji4]. Having worked in the engineering department of a major drone developer and manufacturer that follows government processes I can honestly say that decisions are rarely made because they were the right thing to do. They were made only after a large group of people finally agreed to make them, even if they had no clue for what the outcome would be.

R.Perry · Sep 28, 2019

My point wasn't about the accuracy of the movie, but the attitude the NTSB takes in many cases. True, they need to ask all the questions but they also don't need to jump to conclusions. The example given above regarding the RC aircraft and the manned aircraft is a good example of NTSB getting it wrong. Now I know for reconstruction of an accident and finding the causes they are very good. I have never had an aircraft accident so I don't have first hand experience with the NTSB, but I have read many of their findings and in most cases when they conclude it was pilot error they are correct, but they also miss a few in my opinion.
There was an accident in I believe in Atlanta where an airliner flew directly into a thunderstorm on approach and crashed. NTSB faulted the pilots where in reality there were several factors, air controllers didn't give accurate weather, pilots weather radar showed the approach as being clear of the thunderstorm, the airlines pressure on pilots for on time arrivals, and the pilots being almost out of hours due to late departure from Dallas. Reality, they should have never left Dallas, and that was a management judgement call that was wrong.

PatR · Sep 28, 2019

I remember that one. It was the last scheduled flight for the crew that day, and other flights had pushed them up against the edge of their duty day. Because if duty time constraints they pushed into a questionable weather situation and didn’t divert once they got to it.

The NTSB also faulted the Delta crew that flew into a microburst at DFW. This was before they understood what a microburst could do.

They also publicly faulted Douglas Aircraft for using a sub standard bolt to retain an engine on a pylon on a DC-10. An engine departed in flight but the cause was faulty maintenance practices by ground mechanics. That one public defective bolt announcement ended the DC10, which was in reality a very good aircraft.

Fred Garvin · Sep 29, 2019

PatR said:
......The NTSB also faulted the Delta crew that flew into a microburst at DFW. This was before they understood what a microburst could do.......

‘That was a really bad day. I grew up in Denton, Tx. The summer of ‘85 was between my Freshman and Sophomore year at NTSU (now UNT) and I was driving my girlfriend to the airport to pickup her parents, coming in from LA on a Delta flight. Just as we picked up 121 in Lewisville the crash news came over the radio. The weather was terrible. They announced it was a Delta plane and Lynelle flipped out. I’m driving in a thunderstorm with a hysterical girlfriend, and that’s not an exaggeration....she was. I kept telling her that dozens and dozens of Delta planes land every hour at DFW, we didn’t yet know which flight it was. By the time we reached the north end of DFW, 114 was closed and you could see the smoke, emergency vehicles and damaged water towers to the East. She flipped out again and nothing I could say helped. I just got her to the terminal as fast as I could.

We were lucky. They were on a different plane and waiting in baggage. Not so for a large group of people being ushered to a private area....and the crying....and anguished screams.....I’ll never ever forget that day. Lynelle and her mom sat in the back seat crying and holding each other all the way home. Her dad and I barely said anything on the drive back....neither one of us knew what to say anyway.

PatR · Sep 29, 2019

Not much that can be said in such a situation. Nothing can change it, nothing can take the pain away, and once generated, the fear and terror of such an experience stays with people forever.

R.Perry · Oct 2, 2019

When a tragedy such as that hits close to home we realize our own vulnerability. Pat is right, not much you can say, sh..... happens.

Phaedrus · Oct 2, 2019

I flew into DFW a day or two after that incident. It was chilling to see the burned out wreckage as we touched down.

shooter · Oct 15, 2019

Phaedrus said:
Part 107.31

Yep...those additional restrictions would translate info even LESS distance from the PIC.

R Martin · Oct 16, 2019

Fred Garvin said:
‘That was a really bad day. I grew up in Denton, Tx. The summer of ‘85 was between my Freshman and Sophomore year at NTSU (now UNT) and I was driving my girlfriend to the airport to pickup her parents, coming in from LA on a Delta flight. Just as we picked up 121 in Lewisville the crash news came over the radio. The weather was terrible. They announced it was a Delta plane and Lynelle flipped out. I’m driving in a thunderstorm with a hysterical girlfriend, and that’s not an exaggeration....she was. I kept telling her that dozens and dozens of Delta planes land every hour at DFW, we didn’t yet know which flight it was. By the time we reached the north end of DFW, 114 was closed and you could see the smoke, emergency vehicles and damaged water towers to the East. She flipped out again and nothing I could say helped. I just got her to the terminal as fast as I could.

We were lucky. They were on a different plane and waiting in baggage. Not so for a large group of people being ushered to a private area....and the crying....and anguished screams.....I’ll never ever forget that day. Lynelle and her mom sat in the back seat crying and holding each other all the way home. Her dad and I barely said anything on the drive back....neither one of us knew what to say anyway.

If you know where to look there is still evidence of the event in plain sight at the airport.