What Do You Do? - Non 107 pilot flying for business

[Twenty Eight November]

Yes I understand that. I have a part 107 certification. Also, I read the question and understand it.

My point is that the guy who flies his drone without a 107 and makes a few dollars is no concern to me. I don't care. I won't report him. If he's doing better than I am it's because he's a better photographer or businessman, not because he has some advantage because he doesn't have a part 107 certification. He's not doing anything differently than the guy flying for fun. I don't care if you sell some of your images that you already have. It makes no sense to me that you can do the same flying in the same places and have the same imagery as I do, but can't sell the images because you don't have a piece of paper from the FAA. The OP seems more concerned about the fact that someone has something he doesn't have than with what is right. Those who are anxious to nail the "perpetrator" seem to be too anxious to get someone in trouble.

Also, I see your point about insurance. Isn't it possibly that someone without a part 107 like you could fly their drone into a mansion and cause a fire, etc. as per your hypothetical, and do you carry insurance to cover that?

But it should concern you, that is the point. It hurts the industry as a whole. This guy with no license, no insurance, no nothing probably has no overhead in his business at all so he undercuts others in the industry which overall in the long run will reduce the going rates locally for jobs of this type. Why would a realtor pay me or someone else $400 to do a project when they could get this guy to do it for half. Him not following the rules and laws hurts the industry. This has been the problem in industry for most of modern history. No different than Limousine drivers operating without a CDL, or building contractors operating without a contracting license, or hundreds of other industries where you are required to hold a license. Saying it isn't your concern just says you don't care about your industry or livelihood if this happens to be what it is. Heck if this is the case with everything then I have a box of band aids and some tongue depressors and I think I will call myself a Doctor and go out and start practicing some medicine. I can read a computer script as good as some of the Licensed Professional Dr's around so why not jump into the business. Forget that I don't have a license, medical insurance or 6 to 8 years of medical education.

 

[aerialimagery]

So where does it say he has to have insurance? To whom do you report that? How do you suppose it is known that he has no insurance? Nobody flying a drone where I live needs to have insurance. It's good to have but it's not the law here. Having insurance can be a part of an aerial photographer's marketing if it's important to him and his prospective clients. And once again, regarding insurance, why couldn't the hobbyist also do some serious damage to property or people and why shouldn't he have insurance?

I don't buy your analogy because the bar is set VERY LOW to be a licensed "drone pilot." And there is no testing of a pilot's ability to fly. It in no way compares to greater qualifications required to practice medicine. Not having a part 107 does NOT give someone such an advantage that he could charge half what a licensed pilot charge. He's maybe saved $150. That's insignificant. If I didn't have my part 107 that $150 savings would mean nothing in competing with others.

The licensing has nothing to do with the business of using a drone to do photography, etc. It has to do with the FAA as a "pilot." Some want to use the license as if they were somehow a part of a trade association or if it somehow "protected" someone from competition.

My concern regarding drone flying is safety first. So long as thousands of hobbyists can fly their drones with no testing or licensing, it makes little sense to me that more responsible people who would use their drone to make a few bucks would need to have a license. It makes even less sense that someone couldn't use their own drown to photograph their own business without being licensed, and even less that petty or vindictive "licenced pilots" are so eager to get them in trouble.

No I don't care if an unlicensed pilot is competing with me. He's not "stealing" my business. If I can't get business based on ability and my own business skills, then shame on me, not on him. It would be a different story if the qualifications and costs to be a licensed pilot were substantial, but they are aren't. They are minimal.

Drone pilots who I would report to the FAA are those who are flying their drones in ways that pose serious risks to people or property, and that would have nothing to do with whether the pilot is licensed or not. But so far in the almost two years that I've owned a drone, I have seen another drone flying a total of two times.

 

[BigAl07]

So how does it look when someone is acting like they have no insurance? Also, why is this an issue in the context of regulations since it's not an FAA requirement (as far as I know).

Insurance was mentioned by the OP 1x yet you keep going to that. I made no mention of insurance and merely suggested that the OP contact the FSDO. The FSDO has zero legal reach on insurance or not.

I didn't mention insurance in my comment about driving intoxicated but yet you went back to it. Divert conversations much?

If the OP thinks the operator is operating outside of FARs then it's his/her moral obligation to alert the authorities to that fact. In fact the FAA has gone so far as to request us to police ourselves and alert authorities when we see illegal (or seemingly illegal) operations. Why is that so hard for you to accept and digest?

If you don't want to practice this that is FINE and that is your right but when someone else wishes to follow the guidance of the FAA and report unsafe or illegal drone operators then you shouldn't try to hard to defend the offender.

 

[Phaedrus]

I sent a report on this using the FAA's online reporting webpage. I mentioned the insurance merely as a side note. I agree that people operating outside the legal framework diminish the efforts of those of use who have chosen to operate legally. FWIW, I split my time between two places. All my work is in one part of the state while this situation is one local to another separate part of the state from where I normally work. So for those that feel bringing this up out of some sort of jealousy, etc. Congratulations, you win the "Completely Missed the Point Award" for this week.

Thanks for the input and comments. I'll update if I get any new information.

 

[aerialimagery]

I sent a report on this using the FAA's online reporting webpage. I mentioned the insurance merely as a side note. I agree that people operating outside the legal framework diminish the efforts of those of use who have chosen to operate legally. FWIW, I split my time between two places. All my work is in one part of the state while this situation is one local to another separate part of the state from where I normally work. So for those that feel bringing this up out of some sort of jealousy, etc. Congratulations, you win the "Completely Missed the Point Award" for this week.

Thanks for the input and comments. I'll update if I get any new information.

I was the only one who mentioned that. I've seen it before and it wasn't necessarily applicable to you.

I don't see how his work without his license "diminishes" mine or yours. Will your work and my work be somehow enhanced when he gets his license?

What are you hoping the outcome will be? What if all the FAA did was tell him to get his license within 90 days and there would be no penalty? Would you be ok with that?

What would be wrong with first giving the guy a warning and politely letting him know that he should have a part 107 license? He probably would have gotten the hint and then gone through with it without getting into any trouble with big fines, etc.

 

[Phaedrus]

What I am hoping to accomplish is to prevent people from operating illegally. Does there need to be more of a reason than that? FWIW, I did ask him if he was licensed, his response was that it was "BS" and not really required. To me his attitude was such that more "friendly" discussions would be unproductive.

 

[aerialimagery]

What I am hoping to accomplish is to prevent people from operating illegally. Does there need to be more of a reason than that? FWIW, I did ask him if he was licensed, his response was that it was "BS" and not really required. To me his attitude was such that more "friendly" discussions would be unproductive.

Thank you for sharing that part of the story.

 

[Twenty Eight November]

What I am hoping to accomplish is to prevent people from operating illegally. Does there need to be more of a reason than that? FWIW, I did ask him if he was licensed, his response was that it was "BS" and not really required. To me his attitude was such that more "friendly" discussions would be unproductive.

Exactly what needed to be done. If the guy said that insurance was BS, the I am sure he also thinks that a license is BS.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

So, I live in a small community. There's a fellow here who is a prolific aerial videographer. Does commercials for local businesses, flies special events, etc. Has a nice portfolio on YouTube. Thing is, he is not a certified 107 pilot. He has a real lock on the area. It does not seem to matter to his many clients that he is not FAA Part 107. I also know he does not carry insurance. And again, his clients seem not to care. He also appears to be a little loose with some things like flying over traffic, people, BLOS FOV, etc. So how do most of you handle/cope with a situation like this? Suck it up buttercup? Ignore it? Something else?

Here's how to find your FSDO:
Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)

 

[Phaedrus]

Here's how to find your FSDO:
Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)

Thanks. I am well acquainted with FSDO's and how to locate and communicate with them. As I noted above I used the FAA's enforcement reporting webpage

FAA Hotline Reporting Form

 

[Phaedrus]

Exactly what needed to be done. If the guy said that insurance was BS, the I am sure he also thinks that a license is BS.

Actually he told me that the Part 107 license was BS.

 

[Meta4]

Or what if he was doing a realty job on a million dollar home and flew into the huge glass window in the front and in the process the drone or shards of glass knocked over a candle on the table underneath, it started a fire and burnt the house to the ground before the fire department could come. I know that is a really crazy extreme

I like that example but you left out the part where the drone crashes into the windscreen of a bus full of orphans, causing the driver to swerve into the path of an oncoming freight train on the railroad crossing.
Unfortunately the train was carrying a load of toxic waste and right where the derailment occurred, there was a creek that flowed into the water supply reservoir and ........

 

[Grumpy]

Actually he told me that the Part 107 license was BS.

Then that is even more reason to turn him in. That's about as unethical as anyone can get.

 

[aerialimagery]

What if the guy gets a warning from the FAA (and only a warning and no fine), and he decides to go ahead and get his license. Is everyone ok with that?

It was stated that he had an advantage because he had no license. After he gets his license, how will others be able to more effectively compete with him? What advantage will he lose?

 

[BigAl07]

What if the guy gets a warning from the FAA (and only a warning and no fine), and he decides to go ahead and get his license. Is everyone ok with that?

It was stated that he had an advantage because he had no license. After he gets his license, how will others be able to more effectively compete with him? What advantage will he lose?

If he gets his Part 107 (and flies according to those Federal Regulations) he is no longer breaking the law. Seems very logical to me.

 

[Kristina Fowler]

How do you know he doesn't have insurance? Is insurance required by law?

Part 107 isn't a very big barrier. What if he ends up getting it? Will you that give you more business?

Just out of curiosity, I’d like to know how you verified he is not a part 107 pilot. Seems like you would have to contact the FAA to confirm this, and it’s been my experience that the FAA will not share that information. Is it just a hunch you have or did you verify?

 

[Twenty Eight November]

Just out of curiosity, I’d like to know how you verified he is not a part 107 pilot. Seems like you would have to contact the FAA to confirm this, and it’s been my experience that the FAA will not share that information. Is it just a hunch you have or did you verify?

The OP said in other parts of this thread that he had talked with the guy personally and he said that having insurance or a 107 license was BS and he didn't have either.

 

[zalo]

Just out of curiosity, I’d like to know how you verified he is not a part 107 pilot. Seems like you would have to contact the FAA to confirm this, and it’s been my experience that the FAA will not share that information. Is it just a hunch you have or did you verify?

You can lookup information using the FAA Airmen Inquiry.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

You can lookup information using the FAA Airmen Inquiry.

I have been a commercial certificated pilot since 1976 but my record never comes up. Tried every possible iteration of my name. FYI.

 

[BigAl07]

Just out of curiosity, I’d like to know how you verified he is not a part 107 pilot. Seems like you would have to contact the FAA to confirm this, and it’s been my experience that the FAA will not share that information. Is it just a hunch you have or did you verify?

Ummm it's public record so they will tell you that information but... for some reason (read the post above mine) not all show up in the DB.