Yielding to manned aircraft

[philsmith76]

Read a article of another near miss. Drone comes close to hitting helicopter, Coast Guard says | Peninsula Daily News this one is coast guard vs drone and “50 feet” of separation. While I do feel that is a close call and dangerous, What is next?

107.37 Can be vague
Section 107.37 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules. (2018) -
No operation directly above or below aircraft.

“Yielding the right of way means that the small unmanned aircraft must give way to the aircraft or vehicle and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear”

I operate part 107 around one of the busiest uncontrolled airports in the US. I listen to to Unicom as I fly. So understanding the flight patterns is a must.

What would your definition of “well clear”? It would nice if the faa gave specific lateral separation rules like 500’ or 1000’ etc

 

[shooter]

Read a article of another near miss. Drone comes close to hitting helicopter, Coast Guard says | Peninsula Daily News this one is coast guard vs drone and “50 feet” of separation. While I do feel that is a close call. What is next?

107.37 Can be vague
Section 107.37 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules. (2018) -
No operation directly above or below aircraft.

“Yielding the right of way means that the small unmanned aircraft must give way to the aircraft or vehicle and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear”

I operate part 107 around one of the busiest uncontrolled airports in the US. I listen to to Unicom as I fly. So understanding the flight patterns is a must.

What would your definition of “well clear”? It would nice if the faa gave specific lateral separation rules like 500’ or 1000’ etc

"Well clear" is vague and subjective by the nature of UAV flight. At max distance (LOS), altitude (400'), and size (think DJI Spark as an example) no one can determine exactly what a specific separation distance is.

"Near misses" are also subjective, will always take place, and they will be investigated. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[BigAl07]

That's typical FAA jargon and it leaves room for "interpretation". You can bet your bottom dollar if there is an investigation the "interpretation" will not go in your favor.

If another aircraft has to alter it's course or speed to avoid a collision (even if only a perceived one) then you did not maintain sufficient separation IMHO.

 

[Chris Scharf]

My definition of well clear (for me, when I fly) is 'on the ground'. 50 feet sounds like some idiot trying to see how close they can get to the helicopter. Even the small helis that have motors that sound like lawnmowers - you can here those from quite a distance. There is plenty of time to get on the ground and wait for things to clear.

 

[R.Perry]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me it would be a minimum of 500 feet, and not in the path of the helo or aircraft. If someone lets their drone get within 50 of a helicopter I believe they are somewhat reckless. A helicopter is easy to see, where a drone may not be easily visible to the helo pilots. Where I work we have blackhawks operating in the area at times, most of the time they are well above 400 feet, and only get within a half a mile of where I'm working.
It is an issue of situational awareness and thinking safety.

 

[philsmith76]

The closing speed of a aircraft or helicopter in cruise can leave very little time for avoiding a collision. With the package delivery drones that may be starting soon I am interested in how the FAA will word bvlos and see and avoid within their waivers. Until 2020 when ads-b is required I can’t imagine how bvlos will work. There needs to be someone on the ground with eyes and ears.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Read a article of another near miss. Drone comes close to hitting helicopter, Coast Guard says | Peninsula Daily News this one is coast guard vs drone and “50 feet” of separation. While I do feel that is a close call and dangerous, What is next?

107.37 Can be vague
Section 107.37 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules. (2018) -
No operation directly above or below aircraft.

“Yielding the right of way means that the small unmanned aircraft must give way to the aircraft or vehicle and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear”

I operate part 107 around one of the busiest uncontrolled airports in the US. I listen to to Unicom as I fly. So understanding the flight patterns is a must.

What would your definition of “well clear”? It would nice if the faa gave specific lateral separation rules like 500’ or 1000’ etc

Rules are vague because they have to be. No regulation can address every set of circumstances.

As a certificated pilot, "well clear" is subjective because conditions (altitude, airspeed, aircraft size, lateral clearance) are all variables every aviator must assess and process every minute of her/his flight. That's why we are "pilots-in-command."

 

[R.Perry]

Rules are vague because they have to be. No regulation can address every set of circumstances.

As a certificated pilot, "well clear" is subjective because conditions (altitude, airspeed, aircraft size, lateral clearance) are all variables every aviator must assess and process every minute of her/his flight. That's why we are "pilots-in-command."

Some rules are vague, until something goes wrong. Then those vague rules can become the hammer that nails you. What do you consider flying too low, since I was a crop duster for many years my opinion and your are probably very different.
The FAA expects pilots to use some common sense, something that is a bit lacking with some folks.
Anyone watch the movie Sully, the NTSB wanted to fry him. What is interesting read the whole story. Truth is Sully rewrote the book on emergency water landing.
My point is that if you are involved in and accident, you may be doing everything right, but that doesn't mean the s..... isn't going to hit the fan.

 

[GVDD Scout]

'Well clear' also depends on the type of aircraft ans noted in the above replies: For me, if I'm 600' to 1000' below a fixed wing craft, I don't worry, and just stay alert. Helicopters, however, in my area of operations have a tendency to enter the my airspace at variable altitude and speed, so I give helicopters about a 1/4 mile or more clearance. If that means i abort or delay a sortie, so be it.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Some rules are vague, until something goes wrong. Then those vague rules can become the hammer that nails you. What do you consider flying too low, since I was a crop duster for many years my opinion and your are probably very different.
The FAA expects pilots to use some common sense, something that is a bit lacking with some folks.
Anyone watch the movie Sully, the NTSB wanted to fry him. What is interesting read the whole story. Truth is Sully rewrote the book on emergency water landing.
My point is that if you are involved in and accident, you may be doing everything right, but that doesn't mean the s..... isn't going to hit the fan.

"Some rules are vague, until something goes wrong. Then those vague rules can become the hammer that nails you"
So true, even for manned aircraft pilots. The problem is not regulations but human stupidity. Too many stupid UAV pilots, AND too many stupid manned aircraft pilots. Government (FAA) can't regulate stupidity but it should beat it into submission.