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Am I understanding the new recreational rules correctly?

JoeDimwit

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It looks to me like the only way I, as a part 107 certificate holder, can fly under the recreational rules (the only real benefit of which that I see being the ability to use goggles for POV flight) is if I purchase a separate drone that I register as strictly recreational.
 

BigAl07

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It looks to me like the only way I, as a part 107 certificate holder, can fly under the recreational rules (the only real benefit of which that I see being the ability to use goggles for POV flight) is if I purchase a separate drone that I register as strictly recreational.

No that is NOT correct Joe. A Commercial Operator can operate as a hobbyist but all rules have to be followed for the type of flight you want to utilize. You can't mix/match Hobby/Part 107 in the same flight. On the positive side most of the rules are now almost the same so there's not a lot of benefit to operating as a hobbyist.

On the same token, a Commercially Registered aircraft can fly both for Commercial and Hobby purposes but Hobby registration is only applicable to Hobby flights.
 

BigAl07

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As a side note, I don't think that Goggles are any less restrictive under Hobby as they are under Part 107 now but I've not dug deeply into it but I think you'll need a dedicated VO to use goggles now. Also the VO has to be stationed in close proximity to you, the operator, if utilized. IIRC the term they use is CoLocated.
 
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JoeDimwit

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§ 44809. Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft

“(a) In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations:

“(1) The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes.
So, the (bolded and underlined by me) word “operation” means something along the lines of “per flight”? Do we have that from a reliable (preferably directly the FAA) source?

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just trying to make sure I understand the rules completely.
 

JoeDimwit

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As a side note, I don't think that Goggles are any less restrictive under Hobby as they are under Part 107 now but I've not dug deeply into it but I think you'll need a dedicated VO to use goggles now. Also the VO has to be stationed in close proximity to you, the operator, if utilized. IIRC the term they use is CoLocated.
Part 107 forbids the use of goggles by the operator completely, VO or not. At least that is how it reads to me.
 

BigAl07

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§ 44809. Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft

“(a) In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations:

“(1) The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes.
So, the (bolded and underlined by me) word “operation” means something along the lines of “per flight”?
Yes per flight. In theory you could have one flight as Hobby and then turn around and the very next flight be commercial with the same aircraft from the exact same location. Both of which are similar but could be under different FAA rules.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just trying to make sure I understand the rules completely.
Not argumentative at all just looking for "official" clarification. I fully understand that.

As it is, I do not have links etc about that. The best way to get the official wording is to open a line of communication with your local FSDO and make sure you get everything in writing. Mr He/She said won't work when it comes to enforcement investigation.



Part 107 forbids the use of goggles by the operator completely, VO or not. At least that is how it reads to me.
I agree. I was discussing how HOBBY now has the allowance to use goggles but are required to have a VO Co-Located. Part 107 does not allow for goggles "explicitly" but does allow a Co-Located VO to temporarily assume VLOS but the RPIC must be able to see the aircraft at all times. This is technically to allow for the RPIC to take eyes off of the aircraft to momentarily look down at the viewing device/tablet for telemetry etc to help INCREASE Situational Awareness. I don't think that "Goggles" (at least not the non-see-thru type) would be allowable but that's not my call. I'm just a guy at the keyboard :)
 

JoeDimwit

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Yes per flight. In theory you could have one flight as Hobby and then turn around and the very next flight be commercial with the same aircraft from the exact same location. Both of which are similar but could be under different FAA rules.



Not argumentative at all just looking for "official" clarification. I fully understand that.

As it is, I do not have links etc about that. The best way to get the official wording is to open a line of communication with your local FSDO and make sure you get everything in writing. Mr He/She said won't work when it comes to enforcement investigation.





I agree. I was discussing how HOBBY now has the allowance to use goggles but are required to have a VO Co-Located. Part 107 does not allow for goggles "explicitly" but does allow a Co-Located VO to temporarily assume VLOS but the RPIC must be able to see the aircraft at all times. This is technically to allow for the RPIC to take eyes off of the aircraft to momentarily look down at the viewing device/tablet for telemetry etc to help INCREASE Situational Awareness. I don't think that "Goggles" (at least not the non-see-thru type) would be allowable but that's not my call. I'm just a guy at the keyboard :)
I think our thoughts on goggles are very similar.
 
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Phaedrus

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So, the (bolded and underlined by me) word “operation” means something along the lines of “per flight”? Do we have that from a reliable (preferably directly the FAA) source?

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just trying to make sure I understand the rules completely.

How much more authority do you want than what the United States Congress wrote into Public Law 115-254 Section 349?? It IS the law, but will not be fully in force until FAA incorporates it into the FARs.
 

JoeDimwit

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How much more authority do you want than what the United States Congress wrote into Public Law 115-254 Section 349?? It IS the law, but will not be fully in force until FAA incorporates it into the FARs.
What I want is to understand how those words will be interpreted. Because, that word “operation” has several different definitions. Maybe I’m just not a smart as you are... 🤷‍♂️
 

Phaedrus

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FAA typically defaults to plain English when these types of questions come up. In this case "operation" would mean every time you left the ground. That is an "operation". No reason to go out of our ways to complicate this.
 

JoeDimwit

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thats how I would interpret it, but, even you had to hedge your reply with the word “typically “.
 

Phaedrus

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Well, let me take away the "typically". I have never seen the FAA interpret the word "operation" to mean anything other than a unique flight. So to be legal with respect to Section 349 as a Recreational sUAS you must meet all 8 conditions as written in Section 349.
 
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Earnest Ward

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Part 107 forbids the use of goggles by the operator completely, VO or not. At least that is how it reads to me.
I believe that you're referring to 107.35(a). Don't forget, though, that 107.35(b) goes on to state "Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in paragraph (a) of this section must be exercised by either:

(1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or

(2) A visual observer." (emphasis mine).

Use of the words "either" and "or" give the RPIC the two options to fulfill (a). Thus, using goggles would be permissible as long as a VO maintains VLOS.

Alternately, a RPIC might opt to utilize an Airborne Sensor/Payload Operator to operate the camera via goggles while the RPIC flies the aircraft and maintains VLOS.
 

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