I can certainly understand that a Private or Commercial Pilot might object to a drone driver calling himself a pilot. They have so much more invested in time and resources. The FAA calls us "pilots" but for myself I use that title sparingly, if at all. I'm a drone operator or driver or enthusiast... and I'm ok with that...
Are 107 Holders really Pilots?
- Thread starter Tim Jones
- Start date
PatM
Well-Known Member
I get that argument too and agree with it. On the other hand, coming from a long RC background I can tell you that having full scale piloting experience does NOT always, or necessarily translate into making you a good Remote Pilot. It is a totally different world. I have trained many students, young and old with all sorts of backgrounds and without a doubt, some of the most difficult trainees were older male pilots with lots of hours. The lack of stick response, the absence of feeling the turn and so much more that is ingrained into them, is gone and they had to learn a new skill. By the same token two of the best RC Pilots I ever flew with were a former Army Helicopter Pilot and after Vietnam flew 747s, and a former Navy Pilot that flew carrier combat missions in A4s and F8s.
The FAA calls a 107 holder a Remote Pilot and I'm okay with that. I'm surprised these full scale pilots haven't come up with some sort of nickname for us, kind of like how Navy guys make fun of Coast Guard and so on. Maybe Remotes, or Moties, PICs, PICers - something like that.
The FAA calls a 107 holder a Remote Pilot and I'm okay with that. I'm surprised these full scale pilots haven't come up with some sort of nickname for us, kind of like how Navy guys make fun of Coast Guard and so on. Maybe Remotes, or Moties, PICs, PICers - something like that.
IrishmanPDX
Member
Listen up prop heads (it's the name I'm pushing), there's a reason I'm going to be against a "skill" testing section and that's because of the wide range of drones out there with different capabilities. Plus someone who guesses the correct answers on a 100 question test.... I don't want to be standing next to them when they start flying to demonstrate their "skills".
I'll go with a skill test providing it's simulated.... therefore you can test based upon loss of gps, flying manual with wind gusts and end with a motor failing and "now what do you do that your drone fell on that box of puppies...". Plus you know the government would just love investing a couple of million to come up with a drone simulator.
I believe that "toy" drones should be exempt but need to fall into certain categories to be exempt (weigh less then 1lb, be of a foam body construction, etc).
However for the FAA to expect drone owners to work with them and support all their regulations, they have to be a bit more open an involved than "if you see someone operating their drone in an unsafe or illegal manner, please contact the local authorities".
To be honest, I'm all about better standards and testing (even if it's not simulated) however you do want to feel that because you're willing to do this, the FAA has to have your back also.
I'll go with a skill test providing it's simulated.... therefore you can test based upon loss of gps, flying manual with wind gusts and end with a motor failing and "now what do you do that your drone fell on that box of puppies...". Plus you know the government would just love investing a couple of million to come up with a drone simulator.
I believe that "toy" drones should be exempt but need to fall into certain categories to be exempt (weigh less then 1lb, be of a foam body construction, etc).
However for the FAA to expect drone owners to work with them and support all their regulations, they have to be a bit more open an involved than "if you see someone operating their drone in an unsafe or illegal manner, please contact the local authorities".
To be honest, I'm all about better standards and testing (even if it's not simulated) however you do want to feel that because you're willing to do this, the FAA has to have your back also.
PatM
Well-Known Member
I don't know, that word 'Motie is growing on me.
As for the test thing, below is a post I made on another forum
While I hate restrictions, the other side of the coin is far worse. We're in an uphill battle all the way. Industry doesn't want to limit it's sales to only those who have proven their worthiness as an sUAV systems operator, so they market them to the lowest common denominator. A similar thing has/is happening in a different industry - motorcycles.
Used to be you could just walk in and buy any bike you wanted and ride out on a bike capable of astonishing performance - sub 9 second quarter mile runs. I don't know about other states but here in Florida, you now must get an endorsement by taking an MSF course to prove at least a little proficiency at riding a motorcycle. For a new rider this costs about the same as taking our part 107 and you will spend several hours in classroom and again outside on a closed course. And yet motorcycle sales have not plummeted.
I know I will take heat for this but; I think a similar path might be the way. Maybe manufacturers could hire experienced pilots to hold the courses and certify new incoming pilots, let the newbs pay for, and earn; their entry into the profession. This is how it works with the MSF courses. Then, reorganize the UAV classification system entirely - NOT based JUST on weight but also on capability. Maybe make range, height, payload and speed, limitations on restricted "drones", then sell the unrestricted UAV's only to operators that have passed the course. From there you could add more steps all the way up to a fully unrestricted 107 operator. Then all the geo fencing could be standardized based on the classification. I know, I'm just dreaming out loud.
Imagine this - A guy walks into a BestBuy and asks the "tech-expert", "hey, where are the drones" and he gets shown the corner display with all the pink and rainbow colored, starter drones. Then he sees all the good stuff and asks "I want one of these" and is told he needs to have his endorsement for UAV Pilot's Standards. I believe perspective pilots would in general go through the steps. The ones that wouldn't? Probably a good thing. Flying these aircraft is a little more serious than some can comprehend such as the pilot who took that picture.
I think its just going to take a long time for the system to adapt and organize because on one hand you have those who legislate and regulate, operating at a snails pace and on the other hand, the industry and technology are moving and growing at increasing speed.
As for the test thing, below is a post I made on another forumWhile I hate restrictions, the other side of the coin is far worse. We're in an uphill battle all the way. Industry doesn't want to limit it's sales to only those who have proven their worthiness as an sUAV systems operator, so they market them to the lowest common denominator. A similar thing has/is happening in a different industry - motorcycles.
Used to be you could just walk in and buy any bike you wanted and ride out on a bike capable of astonishing performance - sub 9 second quarter mile runs. I don't know about other states but here in Florida, you now must get an endorsement by taking an MSF course to prove at least a little proficiency at riding a motorcycle. For a new rider this costs about the same as taking our part 107 and you will spend several hours in classroom and again outside on a closed course. And yet motorcycle sales have not plummeted.
I know I will take heat for this but; I think a similar path might be the way. Maybe manufacturers could hire experienced pilots to hold the courses and certify new incoming pilots, let the newbs pay for, and earn; their entry into the profession. This is how it works with the MSF courses. Then, reorganize the UAV classification system entirely - NOT based JUST on weight but also on capability. Maybe make range, height, payload and speed, limitations on restricted "drones", then sell the unrestricted UAV's only to operators that have passed the course. From there you could add more steps all the way up to a fully unrestricted 107 operator. Then all the geo fencing could be standardized based on the classification. I know, I'm just dreaming out loud.
Imagine this - A guy walks into a BestBuy and asks the "tech-expert", "hey, where are the drones" and he gets shown the corner display with all the pink and rainbow colored, starter drones. Then he sees all the good stuff and asks "I want one of these" and is told he needs to have his endorsement for UAV Pilot's Standards. I believe perspective pilots would in general go through the steps. The ones that wouldn't? Probably a good thing. Flying these aircraft is a little more serious than some can comprehend such as the pilot who took that picture.
I think its just going to take a long time for the system to adapt and organize because on one hand you have those who legislate and regulate, operating at a snails pace and on the other hand, the industry and technology are moving and growing at increasing speed.
Why not? It says so on that little card that I have. But with that card comes responsibilities.
Sorry for the simplistic answer but as written, the question is somewhat simple.
It has been interesting reading many of the detailed responses.
So is bowling a sport or a game? (Please don't respond to that it is a rhetorical question )
Sorry for the simplistic answer but as written, the question is somewhat simple.
It has been interesting reading many of the detailed responses.
So is bowling a sport or a game? (Please don't respond to that it is a rhetorical question )
I am sort of surprised we don't have some nickname by now, but eventually we may be able to laugh that nick name right to at least a secondary income.
I still thing a skills test is not a bad idea
Would love to see how many people respond to and deal with loss of signal and or sensor failure.
Many people just shout an explicative and start scanning hoping it comes back. Recently I had one drop battery from 75% to 0 in seconds. It had to have been a sensor failure, but for some bonehead reason instead of just getting in a safe place to put it down, I tried to fly it home. DOH
got to within a few feet of me and tumbled into a parking lot
I still thing a skills test is not a bad idea
Would love to see how many people respond to and deal with loss of signal and or sensor failure.
Many people just shout an explicative and start scanning hoping it comes back. Recently I had one drop battery from 75% to 0 in seconds. It had to have been a sensor failure, but for some bonehead reason instead of just getting in a safe place to put it down, I tried to fly it home. DOH
got to within a few feet of me and tumbled into a parking lot
DroneMinnesota
Member
Do you guys remember when the word Drone was a problem for some?
everyone tried vehemently to get the world to us Unmanned Aerial Vehicle
But eventually people just gave up, and accepted the term.
I think we should just be called remotes
everyone tried vehemently to get the world to us Unmanned Aerial Vehicle
But eventually people just gave up, and accepted the term.
I think we should just be called remotes
PatM
Well-Known Member
Yeah that ship (drone) has sailed and it ain't comin' back, but I still use it only sparingly and; only among friends. I like to show up at a new job and announce "I'm here for the multi-rotor shots" and see how long it takes to realize just who I am.
I like to show up at a new job and announce "I'm here for the multi-rotor shots" and see how long it takes to realize just who I am.
PatM
Well-Known Member
What is a rotor? LOL
For some reason one of the old school guys took off on me the other day, when I called mine a bird.
I am sure there is some historical land mine I stepped on when I used that term to describe my UAV, er Drone, er Multirotor
I am sure there is some historical land mine I stepped on when I used that term to describe my UAV, er Drone, er Multirotor
In the U.K. these craft are called aircraft, and thus need pilots. I am happy and content to be classed as a pilot. The dictionary defines a pilot as one wh9 operates the controls of an aircraft.
Well you do have a bit better command of the English language over there
but slang, yeah we can do slang
but slang, yeah we can do slang
PatM
Well-Known Member
When I flying, I'm a remote pilot, when I'm operating the camera at the same time, I'm a film maker - under the direct supervision of the other guy. 
Help From Above
Member
Insurance is the final determination for me. Most of the terminology I use follows along with their definitions.
Who's a real pilot? Skills aside and up in the air, I'd say you're really a pilot when your life depends on the systems. No risk of crashing/fatality means you can't really say you're a pilot without mentioning it's remote.
It all works pretty well with my ADHD!
Who's a real pilot? Skills aside and up in the air, I'd say you're really a pilot when your life depends on the systems. No risk of crashing/fatality means you can't really say you're a pilot without mentioning it's remote.
It all works pretty well with my ADHD!
I don't consider myself to be a "pilot" and I think those who advertise that they are "drone pilots" are missing the point, since the imagery that results is what is important. I say that I am a "photographer." As far as the FAA is concerned I suppose I became a "pilot" when I barely passed the FAA exam, even though I had flown my drone all of two hours.
I have spent many hours in fixed wing and helicopters as a photographer/passenger, and I know what a real pilot is. It's really hard for me to put myself in the category of "pilot" along with the men and women who spent much money and time training and who had much experience flying and training others. I don't really feel that I'm "piloting" my drone. It seems to me that the software is doing all the real piloting work and I'm just positioning it. But I agree that that from a safety perspective, it was good to learn what was needed to pass the 107.
I have spent many hours in fixed wing and helicopters as a photographer/passenger, and I know what a real pilot is. It's really hard for me to put myself in the category of "pilot" along with the men and women who spent much money and time training and who had much experience flying and training others. I don't really feel that I'm "piloting" my drone. It seems to me that the software is doing all the real piloting work and I'm just positioning it. But I agree that that from a safety perspective, it was good to learn what was needed to pass the 107.
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