Delivery Services

[skyeboysteve]

I know that this is an old topic from the FAA busting a guy for running beers to ice fisherman (back in the good old days when drones were new) to Amazon trying to figure out how to deliver things... but I'm just wondering if anyone else here has heard of this company and have considered signing up?

 

[Meta4]

I know that this is an old topic from the FAA busting a guy for running beers to ice fisherman (back in the good old days when drones were new) to Amazon trying to figure out how to deliver things... but I'm just wondering if anyone else here has heard of this company and have considered signing up.

I had a look at their website and nothing there tempted me to sign up.
I went through their FAQ and found that none of myquestions were answered.
Here are some of my thoughts when I look at their explanation of how it works:

How does Zing work?
When a user orders food from a restaurant, a local drone pilot within range is notified. Once the food has been prepared, the drone pilot will place the drone down and use the app to start the delivery.
You are just sitting around with a fully charged battery waiting (and waiting) for the bat alarm to go off

The drone will fly to and descend at the restaurant autonomously using Zing’s proprietary system.
You set your drone on your launch area, complete with it's 325 gram cargo cage and trust Zing to fly it to a restaurant somewhere.

You trust them to navigate through any obstacles in your neighbourhood (trees, wires, winds etc) to a restaurant and find a safe spot to land there.
How many restaurants have a safe landing spot in an obstacle-free area, where there's no risk from people, cars, dogs etc?

The drone pilot then makes the final descent and picks up the food manually using the Zing app.
What happened to descend at the restaurant autonomously using Zing’s proprietary system?
You trust the restaurant guy to put something of unknown weight in the cage and secure it properly without injuring himself or the drone.

Once the drone pilot is ready, they will tap a button to continue the autonomous flight to the user’s location.
You trust Zing to fly your overweight drone and wind-catching cargo-cage from a restaurant to another unknown location, safely navigating whatever obstacles may be along the way.

They will drop off the food manually in the same way they picked it up from the restaurant.
And now the customer will avoid spinning props, remove their precious takeaway food and secure the cage.

The drone then flies home and lands autonomously where the pilot will put in a new battery to prepare for the next delivery.
And you trust Zing to somehow get your drone back to where it started and you wait again with a new battery.

Three launches, three landings, flying with an unknown weight in a large wind-catcher, autonomously through unknown obstacles, trusting persons unknown to load and unload your cargo cage and somehow observing all regulations.
No mention of range/battery issues - I'm sure Zing would be taking care of that for you.
What could possibly go wrong?

Any regulation issues are covered by Zing's simple one line statement:
Please follow all FAA laws and regulations while using Zing products within the United States.
So you are only doing daylight deliveries where you are able to see the restaurant and the hungry customer from your launch point.

All this for an unspecified (but probably very small ?) payment, when/if any hungry Zing customers living near you place an order with a participating restaurant that's also nearby.

 

[Meta4]

[ I'm just wondering if anyone else here has heard of this company and have considered signing up.

Zing say they are looking at paying $5 per delivery.
It wouldn't be an economic prospect at that rate, even if there was work and all the problems were solved.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Zing say they are looking at paying $5 per delivery.
It wouldn't be an economic prospect at that rate, even if there was work and all the problems were solved.

"$5 per delivery."

 

[skyeboysteve]

Zing say they are looking at paying $5 per delivery.
It wouldn't be an economic prospect at that rate, even if there was work and all the problems were solved.

Before I edited my initial post; I had outlined most of what you pointed out--that it was all kind of silly of them; but then I thought better of offering my opinion first while asking for others'; and tainting the responses. Plus I didn't want to offend any zing people who might be on here right off the bat.

I remember being perplexed by my broke (with a car) step-son ordering uber delivery from McDonald's that's less than a 10 minute walk from the house (and would be VLOS if not for other houses between us). I was thinking it was extremely lazy (and financially inept) of him to order something that probably cost as much to be delivered... but it was only about $1.50. Not sure why a Uber driver would agree to do that delivery; but anyway... it's going to be hard to compete with at $5 drone delivery (an eye ball away) other than perhaps the initial novelty.

But my initial observations were that I only let close friends (under my observation) handle my drone... I can't imagine letting strangers have access to it... even if BVLOS operations are granted in the near future. Plus that cage has got to limit flight range considerably by its drag (and weight). Then there's the matter of someone running off with your drone...

At best I see this as a one-time party gimmick in open areas. I just don't understand how someone went through the effort of making an iOS apps (which includes getting approval on iTunes); without apparently thinking through the obvious problems--unless their primary business plan is to make money off the sales of their cages to misguided optimistic 107 guys...

 

[924]

I know that this is an old topic from the FAA busting a guy for running beers to ice fisherman (back in the good old days when drones were new) to Amazon trying to figure out how to deliver things... but I'm just wondering if anyone else here has heard of this company and have considered signing up?

The premise is so ridiculous I would not know where to begin to question it.

 

[MapMaker53]

Will never happen.

 

[924]

Will never happen.

Yeah. It’s actually kinda funny. Whoever floated this concept in the first place has never piloted a UAV and doesn’t know the first thing about them. It’s a pretty cool fantasy, though.

 

[Earnest Ward]

Since Zing does not hold a BVLOS COW, disclaims any responsibility for damage or injury resulting from the use of the app, AND only has only one review (reporting that the app caused a crash)....

 

[Meta4]

Since Zing does not hold a BVLOS COW, disclaims any responsibility for damage or injury resulting from the use of the app, AND only has only one review (reporting that the app caused a crash)....

Here's how Zing answered my questions - See #6
1. Our delivery box does not hinder the flight performance nor flight time of the drone. It is incredibly lightweight and we have tested the product ourselves. In terms of wind, if it is too windy to fly a drone, it is probably too windy to make a delivery. But this is up to the drone pilot’s discretion.

2. While the drone launches and lands autonomously, you can see the view of the drone through the app. This however, does not mean that you couldn’t take control if need be. Additionally, a warning appears notifying the drone pilot to launch in a clear area so the drone has enough space to take off.

3. We are not sure the number of restaurants with a clear safe landing area. But, many restaurants do have areas that will make this possible. We understand that not every single restaurant would be able to participate in this business venture.

4. The door to the delivery box is very easy to fasten or un-fasten. You simply turn the locking mechanism. In the same way that there could be an issue with an order for your standard pizza delivery, there is always the possibility that instructions could be followed incorrectly. But with proper instruction, this is a very simple device to understand.

5. We do not only suggest following FAA regulations, it is required. We have a page on our site for pilots who aren’t part 107 certified to become certified as this is very important to us.

6. In regards to line of sight restrictions, NASA is currently testing these regulations and the FAA will review these results shortly thereafter, hopefully leading to a change in these regulations. In the meantime, our goal is to have enough pilots in our network in close enough proximity to customers that this would not be an issue.

7. Most restaurants are only open during daytime hours. As mentioned above, we abide by FAA guidelines and so requests would not be able to be filled outside of daylight hours.

 

[MapMaker53]

Here's how Zing answered my questions - See #6

6. In regards to line of sight restrictions, NASA is currently testing these regulations and the FAA will review these results shortly thereafter, hopefully leading to a change in these regulations. In the meantime, our goal is to have enough pilots in our network in close enough proximity to customers that this would not be an issue.

Clearly, they are clueless when it comes to flying drones or what VLOS actually means. If a pilot is in close enough proximity to the delivery location to remain VLOS, there is no need for a drone delivery.

So, under current Part 107 regulations, basically the drone operator needs to live next to a store where he can grab a small item order and fly it down the street to a location that he can see from where he is standing.

 

[Earnest Ward]

Clearly, they are clueless when it comes to flying drones or what VLOS actually means. If a pilot is in close enough proximity to the delivery location to remain VLOS, there is no need for a drone delivery.

So, under current Part 107 regulations, basically the drone operator needs to live next to a store where he can grab a small item order and fly it down the street to a location that he can see from where he is standing.

But, as seen in this screen shot from the App Store, that's NOT what Zing is conveying in their app promotion materials and illustrations. Even without San Francisco's towering buildings, hilly terrain this would be a VLOS "stretch" - about 4 miles one way, yes? (Granted it's been awhile since I was in the Bay Area, so someone can correct me if I'm off the mark. But it looks like the "customer delivery coordinates" are in the Fort McDowell area on Angel Island - which is part of the Golden Gate NPS "No Fly Zone.")

 

[MapMaker53]

Agreed. VLOS is meant to be from liftoff to landing, and everything in between. Their claim of being Part 107 compliant just doesn't ring true based on their advertising. Even if delivered 1/2 mile away, it is doubtful the UAV operator could ever have VLOS as it descends and delivers an item to the recipient.

 

[Earnest Ward]

Here's how Zing answered my questions - See #6

6. In regards to line of sight restrictions, NASA is currently testing these regulations and the FAA will review these results shortly thereafter, hopefully leading to a change in these regulations. In the meantime, our goal is to have enough pilots in our network in close enough proximity to customers that this would not be an issue.

NASA isn't the only stakeholder working on BVLOS, and there's no guarantee that NASA's system (if they come up with one) will be the system adopted by the FAA. But - since Zing mentions NASA specifically - I thought the group might like to see the kind of "small" UAS NASA-Langley is currently utilizing for BVLOS research. (Personally, I don't expect my company to ever be able to go BVLOS with our current gen Mavics and P4s.)

 

[Izamarfeat]

I think it doesn't make sense to register on their website. It seems to me that this site will not be useful to anyone, so it is better to use the services of more well-known and reliable delivery services. Also, you can always use delivery tracking services to get accurate information about where your parcel is located and when it will be delivered. In the latter case, it just makes sense to register on the site, so it's probably worth trying to use these services.

 

[Satoshi N.]

I know that this is an old topic from the FAA busting a guy for running beers to ice fisherman (back in the good old days when drones were new) to Amazon trying to figure out how to deliver things... but I'm just wondering if anyone else here has heard of this company and have considered signing up?

Hey Skyeboysteve,

DroneUp is currently interviewing Part 107 pilots for their drone delivery service with Walmart. They are planing to start drone delivery in 6 states (36 sites) by the end of this year! If this is something you are looking to do maybe DroneUP would be the best company to join. Just Google Walmart drone delivery and you will find a bunch of articles about it.

 

[R Martin]

Before I edited my initial post; I had outlined most of what you pointed out--that it was all kind of silly of them; but then I thought better of offering my opinion first while asking for others'; and tainting the responses. Plus I didn't want to offend any zing people who might be on here right off the bat.

I remember being perplexed by my broke (with a car) step-son ordering uber delivery from McDonald's that's less than a 10 minute walk from the house (and would be VLOS if not for other houses between us). I was thinking it was extremely lazy (and financially inept) of him to order something that probably cost as much to be delivered... but it was only about $1.50. Not sure why a Uber driver would agree to do that delivery; but anyway... it's going to be hard to compete with at $5 drone delivery (an eye ball away) other than perhaps the initial novelty.

But my initial observations were that I only let close friends (under my observation) handle my drone... I can't imagine letting strangers have access to it... even if BVLOS operations are granted in the near future. Plus that cage has got to limit flight range considerably by its drag (and weight). Then there's the matter of someone running off with your drone...

At best I see this as a one-time party gimmick in open areas. I just don't understand how someone went through the effort of making an iOS apps (which includes getting approval on iTunes); without apparently thinking through the obvious problems--unless their primary business plan is to make money off the sales of their cages to misguided optimistic 107 guys...

We actually became a partner with NASA and the FAA recently and the research monkeys are working on BVLOS flight between an outlier on campus and Alliance airport. Seeing the hurdles they are having to jump through to get approval to conduct BVLOS flights is enough to convince me it is many years in the future. That, and UTM is a joke. I'm sure it sounded really good on paper but getting it rolled out and in service is a different matter.

 

[R.Perry]

I need to be enlightened. Say we have BVLOS authorization, what is the max distance one can expect to fly and maintain a solid communication link? The above app shows flying from the financial district in San Francisco to Angle Island, that is a real bad idea in my opinion. You will also be flying over hundreds of people.
I watched a video where they are delivering supplies to remote areas in Africa with fixed wing drones that drop the packaged with a small parachute attached, I don't remember the distance they were flying.
I could see BVLOS deliveries being authorized in remote areas long before authorization in metropolitan areas.

 

[R Martin]

I need to be enlightened. Say we have BVLOS authorization, what is the max distance one can expect to fly and maintain a solid communication link? The above app shows flying from the financial district in San Francisco to Angle Island, that is a real bad idea in my opinion. You will also be flying over hundreds of people.
I watched a video where they are delivering supplies to remote areas in Africa with fixed wing drones that drop the packaged with a small parachute attached, I don't remember the distance they were flying.
I could see BVLOS deliveries being authorized in remote areas long before authorization in metropolitan areas.

My UAS is capable but...I still have to set up on a rooftop in order to maintain a command link. I might not be able to see the aircraft but it still requires a electronic LOS. I've never performed a flight like that. But from experience, when LOS is broken the UAS goes rogue and executes it's pre-programmed RTB routine. It truly sucks lugging all that equipment up a vertical ladder to get roof access.

 

[R.Perry]

The furthest I have flown out is a little over a half a mile and that was an inspire 2 that is a much larger target than say a Mavic. The other issue is using 2.4 in the city with all the high power routers is a real pain, so I normally use 5.8 much cleaner but we less range.
I think we have a very long ways to go before drones are capable of realistic delivery services. Now if we could use Uncle Sams satalite links that would fix the communication problem but I don't think that is going to happen.