In terms of Hobby/Recreational flights it's the Wild Wild West. That's a HUGE part of the problem indeed.
Drone with camera found on Fort Worth,Texas Military Base runway
- Thread starter BigAl07
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In terms of Hobby/Recreational flights it's the Wild Wild West. That's a HUGE part of the problem indeed.
This should be in every package D package.
Recreational Users | Know Before You Fly
What is recreational use of sUAS?
The recreational use of sUAS is the operation of an unmanned aircraft for personal interests and enjoyment. For example, using a sUAS to take photographs for your own personal use would be considered recreational; using the same device to take photographs or videos for compensation or sale to another individual would be considered a commercial operation. You should check with the FAA for further determination as to what constitutes commercial or other non-hobby, non-recreational sUAS operations.
What are the safety guidelines for sUAS recreational users?
Recreational Users | Know Before You Fly
What is recreational use of sUAS?
The recreational use of sUAS is the operation of an unmanned aircraft for personal interests and enjoyment. For example, using a sUAS to take photographs for your own personal use would be considered recreational; using the same device to take photographs or videos for compensation or sale to another individual would be considered a commercial operation. You should check with the FAA for further determination as to what constitutes commercial or other non-hobby, non-recreational sUAS operations.
What are the safety guidelines for sUAS recreational users?
- Follow community-based safety guidelines, as developed by organizations such as the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA).
- Fly no higher than 400 feet and remain below any surrounding obstacles when possible.
- Keep your sUAS in eyesight at all times, and use an observer to assist if needed.
- Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations, and you must see and avoid other aircraft and obstacles at all times.
- Do not intentionally fly over unprotected persons or moving vehicles, and remain at least 25 feet away from individuals and vulnerable property.
- Contact the airport and control tower before flying within five miles of an airport or heliport. (Read about best practices here)
- Do not fly in adverse weather conditions such as in high winds or reduced visibility.
- Do not fly under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
- Ensure the operating environment is safe and that the operator is competent and proficient in the operation of the sUAS.
- Do not fly near or over sensitive infrastructure or property such as power stations, water treatment facilities, correctional facilities, heavily traveled roadways, government facilities, etc.
- Check and follow all local laws and ordinances before flying over private property.
- Do not conduct surveillance or photograph persons in areas where there is an expectation of privacy without the individual’s permission (see AMA’s privacy policy).
I personally think it should be in every package and this as well which also mentioned (and links to) sUAS registration:
Do I need permission from the FAA to fly a UAS for recreation or as a hobby?
There are two ways for recreational or hobby UAS fliers to operate in the National Airspace System in accordance with the law and/or FAA regulations. Each of the two options has specific requirements that the UAS operator must follow. The decision as to which option to follow is up to the individual operator.
Option #1. Fly in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Public Law 112-95 Section 336). Under this rule, operators must:
Do I need permission from the FAA to fly a UAS for recreation or as a hobby?
There are two ways for recreational or hobby UAS fliers to operate in the National Airspace System in accordance with the law and/or FAA regulations. Each of the two options has specific requirements that the UAS operator must follow. The decision as to which option to follow is up to the individual operator.
Option #1. Fly in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Public Law 112-95 Section 336). Under this rule, operators must:
- Register their UAS with the FAA
- Fly for hobby or recreational purposes only
- Follow a community-based set of safety guidelines
- Fly the UAS within visual line-of-sight
- Give way to manned aircraft
- Provide prior notification to the airport and air traffic control tower, if one is present, when flying within 5 miles of an airport
- Fly UAS that weigh no more than 55 lbs. unless certified by a community-based organization
RNCotton
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Key word there is "guidelines" .... not rules. Not laws. Not regulations. Not enforceable. Simply guidelines.
Exactly, not concerned with rules as long they understand "guidelines". It's better to have some safety knowledge/awareness than none.
ArrUnTuS
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These comments ring a bell, don't worry, as more and more incidents arise and I hope that no accidents, you will see how they become obligations. With this discussion we have been here for almost 3 years, 1 month ago the new law came out and solved (well the law is already made, we will see later how it is enforced 
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Ravenflight
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Tighter regulations are coming with or without incidents like this. I say do your blood pressure a favor and don't worry about it. If you really care, lobby. But at the end of the day they'll just be hoops to jump through, same as any other regulated activity. They're not going to stop us from flying.
RNCotton
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Your comments of being inconvenienced by those who don't follow rules and guidelines seem pretty trivial compared to what others are facing (see article below or follow the news link). The article below noted that the home made drones are GPS guided and carry shrapnel grenades! We have to have control over critical areas, if GPS is being used then we should be able to take better control of critical airspace like military bases. The drone camera on a Ft Worth Texas runway might have been a trial run for something bigger; who knows. And don't tell me I'm being paranoid, you will see more articles like this and they could happen on our soil. Instead of complaining about the restrictions and regulations we need to understand that there are serious threats to prepare for; maybe we could try to help instead of complain.
Yea I know *cough* *cough* .... guns .... *cough* *cough*
Guns don't use GPS but our drones do - we should improve our control and where we are allowed to fly.
How many drone pilots can fly without GPS in a cross wind and make it to a certain destination w/out crashing; I bet it wouldn't be very many?
https://www.economist.com/news/scie...s-can-overwhelm-defences-home-made-drones-now
AN ATTACK on Russian forces in Syria on January 5th by 13 home-made drones is a good example of “asymmetric” warfare. On one side, exquisite high-tech weapons. On the other, cheap-as-chips disposable robot aircraft. Ten of the drones involved attacked a Russian airbase at Khmeimim. The other three went for a nearby naval base at Tartus. Rather than being quadcopters, the most popular design for commercial drones, the craft involved in these attacks (some of which are pictured above) resembled hobbyists’ model aircraft. They had three-metre wingspans, were built crudely of wood and plastic, and were powered by lawnmower engines. Each carried ten home-made shrapnel grenades under its wings. According to the Russian Ministry of Defence, which has so far refused to say who it thinks was responsible for the attack, the drones were guided by GPS and had a range of 100km.
Yea I know *cough* *cough* .... guns .... *cough* *cough*
Guns don't use GPS but our drones do - we should improve our control and where we are allowed to fly.
How many drone pilots can fly without GPS in a cross wind and make it to a certain destination w/out crashing; I bet it wouldn't be very many?
https://www.economist.com/news/scie...s-can-overwhelm-defences-home-made-drones-now
AN ATTACK on Russian forces in Syria on January 5th by 13 home-made drones is a good example of “asymmetric” warfare. On one side, exquisite high-tech weapons. On the other, cheap-as-chips disposable robot aircraft. Ten of the drones involved attacked a Russian airbase at Khmeimim. The other three went for a nearby naval base at Tartus. Rather than being quadcopters, the most popular design for commercial drones, the craft involved in these attacks (some of which are pictured above) resembled hobbyists’ model aircraft. They had three-metre wingspans, were built crudely of wood and plastic, and were powered by lawnmower engines. Each carried ten home-made shrapnel grenades under its wings. According to the Russian Ministry of Defence, which has so far refused to say who it thinks was responsible for the attack, the drones were guided by GPS and had a range of 100km.
ArrUnTuS
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I don't understand your reasoning, Paul. In other words, drones are also used to do bad things. But wait, you're talking about DIY drones that the limitations you're talking about will never affect them and you want everyone who flies by the rules to have to go crazy to fly depending on where, because of those unjustifiable limitations?
Doesn't it make any more sense, following your reasoning, for systems to be developed that knock down drones in conflict zones instead of disturbing everyone? Incidentally, there are already many such systems in operation.
Killing flies with cannons has never been a good idea in any area
R.Perry
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I don't understand your reasoning, Paul. In other words, drones are also used to do bad things. But wait, you're talking about DIY drones that the limitations you're talking about will never affect them and you want everyone who flies by the rules to have to go crazy to fly depending on where, because of those unjustifiable limitations?
Doesn't it make any more sense, following your reasoning, for systems to be developed that knock down drones in conflict zones instead of disturbing everyone? Incidentally, there are already many such systems in operation.
Killing flies with cannons has never been a good idea in any area
The military has the capabilities today to electronically take out most drones. However you first need to know it is there and posing a threat such as entering a restricted military base. It isn't going to show up on most radars used on military bases. I think we are going to see a rush to equip drones with some sort of transponder, most likely transmitting a fixed code. Aircraft transponders have codes the pilot enters given by ATC.
ArrUnTuS
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@R.Perry the transponder as an addition, very good, for those of us who do things well to be sure not to cause an accident. Remember that in the air the drone is the lowest air vehicle on the "pass" preference scale. In case someone wants to do bad things, they can deactivate the transponder, you don't even have to put it on a DIY.
@xspwhite
I think we all know that 99% of the people who do these things are not professional pilots. But also that the vast majority of amateur pilots do not. Don't we already have weight limitations? Why impose others that are much more restrictive? Analogy: it is forbidden to sell vehicles that run more than 120km/h, it is forbidden to go at more than that speed.
Isn't it better to educate amateur pilots? That all amateur pilots who do not fly in air spaces specifically designated for drones, must obtain a simple and inexpensive license where they learn the basics of air regulations. With that at least they would learn the basic rules, they would have information about the fines that could be earned if they did not comply with the rules and everything would be much better. To educate yes, to limit by limiting no.
Those who want to keep on doing things wrong will be able to keep on doing them, whether or not limitations are imposed. The difference is that you don't put those limitations on those who won't do things wrong
@xspwhite
I think we all know that 99% of the people who do these things are not professional pilots. But also that the vast majority of amateur pilots do not. Don't we already have weight limitations? Why impose others that are much more restrictive? Analogy: it is forbidden to sell vehicles that run more than 120km/h, it is forbidden to go at more than that speed.
Isn't it better to educate amateur pilots? That all amateur pilots who do not fly in air spaces specifically designated for drones, must obtain a simple and inexpensive license where they learn the basics of air regulations. With that at least they would learn the basic rules, they would have information about the fines that could be earned if they did not comply with the rules and everything would be much better. To educate yes, to limit by limiting no.
Those who want to keep on doing things wrong will be able to keep on doing them, whether or not limitations are imposed. The difference is that you don't put those limitations on those who won't do things wrong
R.Perry
Well-Known Member
Many of the regulations that have come about over the last thirty to forty years are due to problems created by people that have pilots licenses. Pilots make mistakes, they are human, and all the training in the world won't change that. We have airline pilots that fall asleep, get caught drinking before a flight, we have new private pilots that fly through restricted air space because they didn't even realize they were in restricted air space.
In 1968 I was at China Lake Navel base when a lad with a new pilots license decide to fly his 150 into the area so he could watch the Navy pilots. The mistakes of others are what creates the restrictions or regulations that effect all of us, that isn't going to change. I look back at things I did as a pilot in the 70s that there is no way I would get away with today, nor would I want to because I'm old enough to realize rules are in place to protect us, not hinder us.
I think transponders in a drone is a great idea, it could be set up to also transmit the drones registration number. I see a major advantage to that. The next time a helocopter pilot crashes and blames a drone, or the airline pilot mistakes a bird for a drone the NTSB would have an easy way to verify or disclaim. If a drone did get on a collision course with an airliner the collision avoidance could warn the airline pilot.
Speaking of airline pilots, they have a tremendous responsibility, a lot of lives depend on them doing their jobs right every time because normally airlines don't have accidents, they have disasters.
If someone is a non conformist and hates rules and regulations, aviation of any kind isn't the place for them.
In 1968 I was at China Lake Navel base when a lad with a new pilots license decide to fly his 150 into the area so he could watch the Navy pilots. The mistakes of others are what creates the restrictions or regulations that effect all of us, that isn't going to change. I look back at things I did as a pilot in the 70s that there is no way I would get away with today, nor would I want to because I'm old enough to realize rules are in place to protect us, not hinder us.
I think transponders in a drone is a great idea, it could be set up to also transmit the drones registration number. I see a major advantage to that. The next time a helocopter pilot crashes and blames a drone, or the airline pilot mistakes a bird for a drone the NTSB would have an easy way to verify or disclaim. If a drone did get on a collision course with an airliner the collision avoidance could warn the airline pilot.
Speaking of airline pilots, they have a tremendous responsibility, a lot of lives depend on them doing their jobs right every time because normally airlines don't have accidents, they have disasters.
If someone is a non conformist and hates rules and regulations, aviation of any kind isn't the place for them.
ArrUnTuS
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Totally with everything you say @R.Perry but we are not talking about aviation in general, about manned aircraft, we are talking about unmanned aircraft. These are clearly divided into 2 types of pilots, the professional pilots and the amateurs (who have been around for years but could only fly in restricted air space for this activity).
With the massive arrival of drones to the consumer market, we have 3 categories of pilots, the professionals (Part 107, AESA license, whatever you want to call it), the amateurs who have flown model airplanes for years and those who buy a drone in the supermarket (By calling them something that is understood).
Those who have been flying for years in the flight clubs probably know all the rules without having taken any license. The experience and sharing information with other fans makes them slowly learn what they can or cannot do. In general, I believe that is the case.
We have the last ones left, the most conflictive ones, (at no time do I speak of malice or the desire to do anything wrong, those people are separate and would be among all the types of pilots). "Sunday shoppers" are people who have no knowledge of any regulations, flying aircraft or anything related to drones. They believe that by buying a drone at the supermarket they can now fly and do whatever they want, "otherwise they won't let me buy it", is a very common thought.
They usually cause the most problems. I think it is necessary to impose a simple, amateur license if you want to fly out of the restricted air space for model airplanes that has always existed. Complying with the regulations regarding drones for amateurs that are being implemented in more and more countries.
The drones carrying a transponder sounds like a very good idea to me. The drones would be equated with their manned older brothers, increasing safety exponentially. It would eliminate the problems or false statements of pilots of all kinds, and prevent incidents or accidents from happening (catastrophes as you very well called them).
The last group, of which there are pilots of all types, is the group of the brainless, those who know the rules or not, and do atrocities such as flying near an airport, at an altitude of 1 km, etc. This group of people must be caught, identified and punished so that they can be deprived of the desire to fly a drone again for life. I really believe that they are criminals when they deliberately endanger the lives of others.
What I do not agree with, and I will always say it, is to restrict or set rules that affect all pilots because of a small group of people, who unfortunately are the ones who are always going to appear in the news for fooling around, and it is going to look like we are all doing the same thing. I believe that we have enough legislation already, that over the years something will be refined and changed to adapt to the new circumstances, but that it is not necessary to "kill flies with cannon shots". That's what I think
With the massive arrival of drones to the consumer market, we have 3 categories of pilots, the professionals (Part 107, AESA license, whatever you want to call it), the amateurs who have flown model airplanes for years and those who buy a drone in the supermarket (By calling them something that is understood).
Those who have been flying for years in the flight clubs probably know all the rules without having taken any license. The experience and sharing information with other fans makes them slowly learn what they can or cannot do. In general, I believe that is the case.
We have the last ones left, the most conflictive ones, (at no time do I speak of malice or the desire to do anything wrong, those people are separate and would be among all the types of pilots). "Sunday shoppers" are people who have no knowledge of any regulations, flying aircraft or anything related to drones. They believe that by buying a drone at the supermarket they can now fly and do whatever they want, "otherwise they won't let me buy it", is a very common thought.
They usually cause the most problems. I think it is necessary to impose a simple, amateur license if you want to fly out of the restricted air space for model airplanes that has always existed. Complying with the regulations regarding drones for amateurs that are being implemented in more and more countries.
The drones carrying a transponder sounds like a very good idea to me. The drones would be equated with their manned older brothers, increasing safety exponentially. It would eliminate the problems or false statements of pilots of all kinds, and prevent incidents or accidents from happening (catastrophes as you very well called them).
The last group, of which there are pilots of all types, is the group of the brainless, those who know the rules or not, and do atrocities such as flying near an airport, at an altitude of 1 km, etc. This group of people must be caught, identified and punished so that they can be deprived of the desire to fly a drone again for life. I really believe that they are criminals when they deliberately endanger the lives of others.
What I do not agree with, and I will always say it, is to restrict or set rules that affect all pilots because of a small group of people, who unfortunately are the ones who are always going to appear in the news for fooling around, and it is going to look like we are all doing the same thing. I believe that we have enough legislation already, that over the years something will be refined and changed to adapt to the new circumstances, but that it is not necessary to "kill flies with cannon shots". That's what I think
Carswell (or the JRB) is surrounded by neighborhoods so the most likely culprit is a kid that can't spell TFR, let alone understand its meaning. The event is a black eye to anyone associated with a UAS but is probably the main reason that the repeal of 336 is gaining momentum. I live in the vicinity and see this exact kind of stupidity on a daily basis, from people/children who should know better but just don't care.
R.Perry
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Arruntus, sorry I didn't catch your response. You are correct we aren't talking about regular aviation, but we are talking about people that have the responsibility to not endanger others or do stupid things. My point being that general and commercial aviation today is raising many concerns over drone operations. Some of the younger pilots today see there careers going to autonomous flight, what they aren't willing to admit, it is already here.
The professional pilots complaining to the FAA and NTSB can have an effect on new rules applied to drones. The other factor is the human factor and all of us no matter how experienced are capable of making serious mistakes.
I think we need to try to relate to the professional pilots, learn from them, enlighten them, and by all means learn to coexist.
Africa is now has drones fly up to 100 miles and delivering medical supplies, how do you think that makes the pilot feel that was once getting paid well to make those deliveries.
I was once a crop duster, I now see drones set up for that purpose, and in all truth, I think a drone is better suited for the job, especially small acreage close to cities and highways.
The professional pilots complaining to the FAA and NTSB can have an effect on new rules applied to drones. The other factor is the human factor and all of us no matter how experienced are capable of making serious mistakes.
I think we need to try to relate to the professional pilots, learn from them, enlighten them, and by all means learn to coexist.
Africa is now has drones fly up to 100 miles and delivering medical supplies, how do you think that makes the pilot feel that was once getting paid well to make those deliveries.
I was once a crop duster, I now see drones set up for that purpose, and in all truth, I think a drone is better suited for the job, especially small acreage close to cities and highways.
