FAA- "Report all commercial activity conducted by non-Part 107 licensees to the local FAA FSDO"...

[R.Perry]

What about Part 107 pilots who knowingly choose to ignore airspace authorization requirements? I just started a thread over here about a specific case: Case study, appreciate comments:

UAV licensed pilots are no different, most will play by the rules, some won't. It's kind of like traffic laws, most people wouldn't think of drinking and driving, but unfortunately many do. Brake the rules long enough and eventually you will pay the price.

One thing I do know about the FAA, the "I didn't know that, don't fly with them."

 

[Christopher Enges]

I'll throw my two cents worth into this discussion. I originally had a 333 exemption that I spent months trying to obtain. I did (it expired last year). When the Part 107 licenses were first issued, I was there at the front of the line. I am fully insured for a million bucks .... both in my business and my drone and I have played by the rules from day one.
I use my drone in my work as a documentary film maker, fly for real estate folks occasionally, fly for government and tribal entities, do bluff inspections, and do private work as well with it.
There are many drone pilots with no licenses who fly for real estate companies in my area. Many are actual real estate agents that fly within the company for other agents too. Almost every major office now has one. I know another film maker in the area that has been flying drones for longer than I …. and has no UAS license. Would I drop a dime on any of them? Nope. Why? Because they do not threaten me or my business in the least.
I can fly circles around most of the "I'll buy a drone and make money in the real estate business" types. More importantly, I can create quality films that these guys can't even come close to replicating. Again, why? Because I started my business with a business plan that included going to school and learning how to create films (3 courses in videography and editing) and making graphics and handling photographs (2 classes in Photoshop), along with business courses designed to move my business along. My drone work is about 40% of my business, as I shoot from the ground more. I use a Canon cinema camera with L series lenses, the sharpest lens I could afford (it took three years to acquire three lenses). When combined with the 4k that my Phantom 4 Pro produces, its hard to beat the quality of clips that I can create for my clients.
I started small and have worked my way into the government sector where I have flown and created many different documentary style films of varying lengths for two counties, three cities, and two tribal entities. And each have called me back. Again, why? Because I give my clients the absolute best quality I can, at a reasonable cost to them. I do not give my work away. Yet, I try to work within the budget of the folks I'm flying for. My 1/2 day and day rates have kind of priced me out of the real estate market, because I have found that these folks want lots of product for little cash.
It's sort of funny, as my business plan had most of my profit coming from the real estate market. In the last four years, I'm going to guess that only about 5% of all my work has been in that sector. And I don't mind a bit.
So, my advice to a up and coming Part 107 pilot is this: Learn to fly and film with your drone very well. But also learn to take the footage you shot and make it into a clean, quick-paced product by taking a course or two in video editing and get proficient with Photoshop, if you just shoot stills. I also would recommend taking a business course to help you with the nuts and bolts of making a buck. It helped me.
You will be then light years ahead of those that buy a drone at Walmart today and fly their first the job the next day and expect to be taken seriously and make tons of cash. They won't be in business a year.
There's my two cents worth ….. ah, maybe a nickel's worth haha!

 

[aerialimagery]

Christopher, do you ever have any "jello" issue with your P4P video?

I'm in agreement with your philosophy regarding ratting on others (unless they are being unsafe).

 

[Christopher Enges]

Christopher, do you ever have any "jello" issue with your P4P video?

I'm in agreement with your philosophy regarding ratting on others (unless they are being unsafe).

Washington state is predominately gray about 80% of the time, but I still use at least a 8-16 stop ND filter and have even used a 32 when the sun really shines around here. That takes care of any 'jello' issue I might have had in the past.
To your last point ….. I have never seen anyone flying unsafe in my neck of the woods. I think if I did I would have a chat with that person before I would turn them in. Just me. Thanks for the comment!

 

[R.Perry]

Christopher, your advice is spot on. I have previously only done photos, I'm currently taking a course of video and video editing mainly because my client now wants videos.

 

[Christopher Enges]

Christopher, your advice is spot on. I have previously only done photos, I'm currently taking a course of video and video editing mainly because my client now wants videos.

I was a semi-professional photographer when I made the switch to videography in 2014. I still incorporate photography into my films when called for. The story-telling capacity of video really transcends still photos in my opinion. (one of the reasons I embraced videography).
You are doing exactly what's needed to become a well-rounded videographer/drone pilot. I commend you!

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

"Would I drop a dime on any of them? Nope. Why? Because they do not threaten me or my business in the least."
It's not about business it's about self policing the profession. Does anyone really believes an unlicensed UAS pilot flies safe all the time. Face it, if s/he doesn't give a squat about certification what makes anyone believes they give a rat's *** about part 107 rules? Anyone who flies commercial w/o a 107, in my presence and if I suspect it, is gonna get reported. Beyond that, not much care what the FAA does, I fulfilled my duty.

 

[Christopher Enges]

"Would I drop a dime on any of them? Nope. Why? Because they do not threaten me or my business in the least."
It's not about business it's about self policing the profession. Does anyone really believes an unlicensed UAS pilot flies safe all the time. Face it, if s/he doesn't give a squat about certification what makes anyone believes they give a rat's *** about part 107 rules? Anyone who flies commercial w/o a 107, in my presence and if I suspect it, is gonna get reported. Beyond that, not much care what the FAA does, I fulfilled my duty.

One of the things about the country we live in is that we all can have differing opinions Luis. I respect yours. But I don't personally hold that opinion.
My drone is a aerial camera that gives me a unique perspective in my film making …. period. I have no emotional attachment to it or the drone industry. Just another tool in my film making tool bag.
I spent a lot of money and time on acquiring a Section 333 Exemption and Part 107 UAs pilot's license to put drones into the air so I can legally and commercially make films with them. In all the paperwork I submitted, read, and studied (and correct me if I am wrong) NOWHERE was there a section on me turning in drone operators that don't have a certification to fly commercially. In MY opinion, it is the duty of the FAA to police this industry … not me.
And Luis, I have flown commercially for four years and in that time I have never seen another unlicensed drone operator fly unsafe. As a matter of fact, I have never even seen another unlicensed drone operator flying a drone for a real estate listing or any other film making process, period.
I have lived on the peninsula for close to 45 years and I know lots of folks. And they talk. So I know that there are folks out there that are flying illegally. I have talked to brokers who picked my brain so they could buy and fly there own drones. Maybe I should have got angry they used my experience, when they originally made it sound like they wanted to hire me. Again, I don't care. It takes more than a drone to make good films.
I am a business man. I bought this drone to make money. I do. I am also extremely busy and do not have time to chase down other operators to see if they are complying with the FAA regs. Just ain't going to happen.
So, everything (for me anyway) on this thread is hypothetical. None of it has happened so far. Maybe it will in the future, I don't know. Maybe if there was an extremely egregious drone moment that happened right in front of me, I might change my mind. But it hasn't happened yet. All just speculative and great fodder for this forum.
As to you turning in a unlicensed pilot. More power to you! You have to be true to your convictions. And I would never run you down for holding them. We all have our opinions and I have mine. I appreciate your comment.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

"You have to be true to your convictions. "
Hey, we agree on something.

 

[TheEDCZone]

Hi All,

Been reading this thread and find it very interesting how the FAA certifies Drone/ UAV pilots and administers the Airspace compared to say Australia [where I am living] and New Zealand [where I am from].

CASA who administers all Aviation Airspace and that includes UAV's has a pretty good system that I think some of you have mentioned.

1. [NEW] Sub 2kg [4.40925 lbs] Class - you can fly both as a Hobby or Commercial. To fly commercially you must notify CASA - 5 days before your first flight and once confirmed can fly for 24 months.

• You will NOT be able to obtain Insurance - you will be asked for your RePL or ReOC Certificates to prove you are certified to obtain Insurance.
• You can NOT fly at night
• You can NOT fly a UAV weighing more than 2kg's - total take off weight [Tello, Mavic Pro]
• You MUST adhere to all CASA Requirements regarding use of your UAV - do not fly more than 400ft AGL [not like you guys have, allowing 400ft above a structure]; with in 30m of a building, within 30m of people, flying over people, must fly VLOS.

2. Remote Pilots Licence [RePL] - Costs around the $2970 AUD for a 5 day full time course, you will also obtain your Aeronautical Radio Operators Certificate [AROC], this course is made up of theory and practical sessions, you must complete 5 hours of UAV flying, practical assessment, written exam which covers things like Aviation Law, Weather, Battery Voltage, CASA regulations.

You MUST have a Chief Pilot or has obtained a ReOC sign off ALL commercial missions and be approved by them before you can fly it, they also must have the same type of UAV in their ReOC Library Appendix 4 or you must have your UAV added to their ReOC, you WILL have to compensate the ReOC as they will be held accountable if you stuff up.

• RePL holders CAN obtain Insurance including Liability, Theft and Damage
• Can Fly in Restricted or Controlled airspace - Aeronautical Radio required, CASA Approval maybe required
• CAN fly at night if signed off by ReOC
• CAN obtain ReOC
• CAN certify on UAV up to 35kg - $300 AUD
• CAN request CASA Approval to fly above 400ft AGL
• You MUST adhere to all CASA Requirements regarding use of your UAV - do not fly more than 400ft AGL [no excepts like you guys have, allowing 400ft above a structure]; with in 30m of a building, within 30m of people or 15m of those working for you.

3. RPA Remote Operators Certificate [ReOC] - Costs $1650 AUD - must complete RePL to gain ReOC.

1. Must complete a 40 page Manual [outlines how you will undertake your role as Chief Pilot and who is in charge of what],
2. 20 page Appendix 4 Library [ Lists your UAV's and other forms and information pertaining to your Manual],
3. Complete 101-06 & 101-08 forms
4. Complete a Mock Mission with all requirements completed including Job Safety report, Risk assessment, maps showing lading/take off area, weather info, known HSL, Controlled or Uncontrolled airports with in 3NM, who the stake holders in the area will be [Land owners, City Council, CASA, Business, Police etc],
5. Complete a 1 1/2 - 2 hour phone interview going over your mission and asking Aviation questions

Once you have obtained your ReOC you will able to complete the following -

• Fly at night - MUST follow CASA requirements, may require CASA approval
• Can Fly in Restricted or Controlled airspace - Aeronautical Radio required, CASA Approval maybe required
• CAN request CASA Approval to fly above 400ft AGL
  
• Can sign off your own Missions
• Run your own UAV Business
• You MUST adhere to all CASA Requirements regarding use of your UAV - do not fly more than 400ft AGL [no excepts like you guys have, allowing 400ft above a structure]; with in 30m of a building, within 30m of people.
  
• ReOC is granted for 12 months at first, after CASA audit can be granted for a further 3 years at a cost of just under $500 AUD.

In Australia CASA will educate you first but are happy to fine you $10,000 [$7422 USD] per offence if you don't listen, this has been done and will be continued to be done [still not done enough], we had a guy fly his Drone to get a hotdog from Bunnings Warehouse, it was uploaded and he was investigated and fined I think for about 5-6 offences, could have been more.

Most people don't know the rules and once they are advised they seem to be pretty good here in Perth, its those types that ignore the education side and keep breaking the regulations, that I personal hope the book is thrown at them.

Personally for me I have invested a lot of time & money around $33,000 AUD [$24492.60 USD] in my training, UAV's, Safety Gear, Marketing [Website, biz cards, Uniform] and would be rightly pissed if some guy came along with an Inspire 2, M210, M600 with no Training, no understanding of the regulations and then did a commercial job and got paid for it, he is breaking all Regulations and using a Commercial UAV with no licence and should be fined etc. I had a kid who did some work experience with me asked if he took photo's with his Mavic Pro and decided later to sell them is that commercial? I advised him that if you take any photo with your Drone/UAV and have the understanding that you will be, could be selling them at any stage it is commercial even if he was flying as a hobby flyer, its the Intent to gain money from said operation of the UAV.

In relation to the Sub 2kg class exception I try and educate my clients, I show them my certification, I show them my safety gear, they see that I have a Commercial UAV and that I am serious about my job and that I take their mission seriously as well. I state to them if the Drone Flyer [not Pilot] doesn't have a Remote Pilots Licence then they CAN NOT get insurance or fly a UAV over 2kgs. I am hoping that this is enough to deter them from using a Non-Insured UAV operator over me.

I hope this hasn't been to long winded, I have completed the following training and own a DJI Mavic Pro and a Matrice 210 with a Zenmuse X5S, I am hoping to get an Inspire 2 to replace the Mavic Pro in the near future.

• Remote Pilots Licence [RePL] - Obtained 26 Jan 2018
• Aeronautical Radio Operators Certificate - Obtained 26 Jan 2018
• Surveying and Mapping Course [2 days]
• RPA Remote Operators Certificate [ReOC] - Obtained 28 June 2018

Thanks to those that have read this and hopefully you see you guys have it easier than us, well I think you guys do, its now 12:38am and I am off to bed - Cheers Jace

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Glad I don't live there.

 

[aerialimagery]

Thank you for sharing that Jace. This is a case IMHO where the law is a crime.

 

[TheKestrel]

“John has a drone. John flies and makes money. John doesn't have his 107. John does a lot of "dangerous" things like flying jobs BLOS, doing night commercial video, and was paid by a venue to fly over large crowds and video a concert for them.”

Because John decided he was too good/special to need to educate himself thoroughly on what kinds of things qualify as dangerous (an education evidenced by a 107 certification), well....he’s a problem. No reason to believe he even knows what “BLOS” even means (much less “TFR” or “Class B airspace”). I’d absolutely report him: church, orphanage, old-folks home... I don’t care. John has simply never proven himself competent to operate dangerous things and absolutely could give my professional industry a bad name (at best), or something much, much, worse.

 

[BigAl07]

“John has a drone. John flies and makes money. John doesn't have his 107. John does a lot of "dangerous" things like flying jobs BLOS, doing night commercial video, and was paid by a venue to fly over large crowds and video a concert for them.”

Because John decided he was too good/special to need to educate himself thoroughly on what kinds of things qualify as dangerous (an education evidenced by a 107 certification), well....he’s a problem. No reason to believe he even knows what “BLOS” even means (much less “TFR” or “Class B airspace”). I’d absolutely report him: church, orphanage, old-folks home... I don’t care. John has simply never proven himself competent to operate dangerous things and absolutely could give my professional industry a bad name (at best), or something much, much, worse.

First off I want to WELCOME you to our forum.

While I agree with your sentiment greatly I do have one point of disagreement. Taking and passing Part 107 only means you're been exposed to and understand (to some degree anyway) the Rules & regulations and methods of operating in the NAS. Unfortunately in no way does it demonstrate that John (or Allen for that matter) is competent in operation of the sUAS. Part 107 needs to incorporate some level of Hands On demonstration of flight abilities before it can be taken too seriously IMHO.

The basis (well there are many actually) stems from the fact that I have met Part 107 holders who have yet to ever fly a sUAS at all. Not even a small indoor unit. They simply studied, took, and passed the test and hope to get their sUAS soon there after. Without flight demonstration the test has not merit in terms of operational ability. At least in my eyes.

 

[TheKestrel]

First off I want to WELCOME you to our forum.

While I agree with your sentiment greatly I do have one point of disagreement. Taking and passing Part 107 only means you're been exposed to and understand (to some degree anyway) the Rules & regulations and methods of operating in the NAS. Unfortunately in no way does it demonstrate that John (or Allen for that matter) is competent in operation of the sUAS. Part 107 needs to incorporate some level of Hands On demonstration of flight abilities before it can be taken too seriously IMHO.

The basis (well there are many actually) stems from the fact that I have met Part 107 holders who have yet to ever fly a sUAS at all. Not even a small indoor unit. They simply studied, took, and passed the test and hope to get their sUAS soon there after. Without flight demonstration the test has not merit in terms of operational ability. At least in my eyes.

You’re absolutely correct and your point is implicit in what I said. There are incompetents on both sides of the equation. The import is not in what possession of the rating says about someone, but more what the lack of one says.

 

[BigAl07]

You’re absolutely correct and your point is implicit in what I said. There are incompetents on both sides of the equation. The import is not in what possession of the rating says about someone, but more what the lack of one says.

Well said.

 

[TheEDCZone]

First off I want to WELCOME you to our forum.

While I agree with your sentiment greatly I do have one point of disagreement. Taking and passing Part 107 only means you're been exposed to and understand (to some degree anyway) the Rules & regulations and methods of operating in the NAS. Unfortunately in no way does it demonstrate that John (or Allen for that matter) is competent in operation of the sUAS. Part 107 needs to incorporate some level of Hands On demonstration of flight abilities before it can be taken too seriously IMHO.

The basis (well there are many actually) stems from the fact that I have met Part 107 holders who have yet to ever fly a sUAS at all. Not even a small indoor unit. They simply studied, took, and passed the test and hope to get their sUAS soon there after. Without flight demonstration the test has not merit in terms of operational ability. At least in my eyes.

Wow, I can't believe that you can get a 107 with out any practical exam!

As I stated in my last Post you have to have had a minimum of 5 hrs of UAV flights here in Australia, and if you average that to 15 mins [on average] per flight, you then need to complete at least 33.33 flights, and to get your Remote Pilots Licence you have to also pass a proficiency test can consist of any the following:

• Flying in a Square - Forward, left, Back, right... etc
• Flying in a Square with turns
• Fling in a Figure 8 - forwards and back
• Fly in a Figure 8 with turns
• Fly from left to right at a 45o angle upwards and back down - going slow simulation of bridge inspection.
• Flying in ATTI mode - with out GPS [did this on a Phantom 3]
• Completing a RTH
• You also need to show Pre-flight checks and post flights

Now this is on top of passing your theory exam which covers Law, Batteries, Weather, Aviation, CASA and more. I was surprised I got 90%, last time I was in High School was in 1993. We had a number of people who had never flown a UAV, to people like be that had more than 5 hours to one a young lady who had over 500+ hours [Photographer].

You guys have it bloody easy, it almost feels like you get your 107 from a Cereal Box, seems to be no real advantage on getting a 107?

• Can you get Insurance with out one?
• How much does it cost to sit your 107?
• Are you only regulated to flying up to 2kgs?
• Would the 107 be similar to our Remote Pilots Licence? or Remote Operators Certificate?

Here's a CASA page for you to check out: Getting licensed and certified to fly a drone

On your Remote Pilots Licence you can only fly up to 2kg's you are also able to obtain insurance, but you MUST fly under someone who has their RPA Remote Operators Certificate as they have to sign off on ALL of your Missions, you will also need to compensate them because if you stuff up then they are liable. Only a ReOC can fly up to 25kgs.

I would personal report anyone that was breaching CASA regulations [and I could prove who was flying] be it flying BVLOS, Flying at night [with out a ReOC] or just be a complete idiot flying it towards crowds etc, however I would also like to state that I would educate first before reporting, I'm not a complete arsehole.

 

[Moosewax]

Wow, I can't believe that you can get a 107 with out any practical exam!

As I stated in my last Post you have to have had a minimum of 5 hrs of UAV flights here in Australia, and if you average that to 15 mins [on average] per flight, you then need to complete at least 33.33 flights, and to get your Remote Pilots Licence you have to also pass a proficiency test can consist of any the following:

• Flying in a Square - Forward, left, Back, right... etc
• Flying in a Square with turns
• Fling in a Figure 8 - forwards and back
• Fly in a Figure 8 with turns
• Fly from left to right at a 45o angle upwards and back down - going slow simulation of bridge inspection.
• Flying in ATTI mode - with out GPS [did this on a Phantom 3]
• Completing a RTH
• You also need to show Pre-flight checks and post flights

Now this is on top of passing your theory exam which covers Law, Batteries, Weather, Aviation, CASA and more. I was surprised I got 90%, last time I was in High School was in 1993. We had a number of people who had never flown a UAV, to people like be that had more than 5 hours to one a young lady who had over 500+ hours [Photographer].

You guys have it bloody easy, it almost feels like you get your 107 from a Cereal Box, seems to be no real advantage on getting a 107?

• Can you get Insurance with out one?
• How much does it cost to sit your 107?
• Are you only regulated to flying up to 2kgs?
• Would the 107 be similar to our Remote Pilots Licence? or Remote Operators Certificate?

Here's a CASA page for you to check out: Getting licensed and certified to fly a drone

On your Remote Pilots Licence you can only fly up to 2kg's you are also able to obtain insurance, but you MUST fly under someone who has their RPA Remote Operators Certificate as they have to sign off on ALL of your Missions, you will also need to compensate them because if you stuff up then they are liable. Only a ReOC can fly up to 25kgs.

I would personal report anyone that was breaching CASA regulations [and I could prove who was flying] be it flying BVLOS, Flying at night [with out a ReOC] or just be a complete idiot flying it towards crowds etc, however I would also like to state that I would educate first before reporting, I'm not a complete arsehole.

Your cereal box line has me rolling.

Sadly in the USA someone can just get their 107 never having touched a drone, and then are legal to fly one commercially upto 55lbs (roughly 25kg) max takeoff weight.

It is all too easy.

The main thing keeping most people in line is the expense and sheer size of wrecking a big rig. Still, when it is the company's money some inept/unserious operators still manage to get their hands on the sticks of serious gear with expensive consequences.

 

[TheKestrel]

My apologies if I am missing something here....are you saying that in Australia, every person who wants to fly a drone must prove this level of skill? Or, only “commercial” (i.e. “107-ish”) operators? If it’s the former, I fully support that kind of policy here in the U.S. (quite frankly I’d be surprised as CASA has a very long history of incomplete-thinking). If it’s the latter then the original topic this thread (uncredentialed pilots and the problem they pose), remains completely unilluminated by your post.

“Cereal box” it may be but if the vast majority of drone operators there are not required to prove themselves in any way, then you and yours are no safer from those folks than we are. Then, if they also pose as credentialed (as I expect they do given what credentialling must cost!), you and yours are probably in much more danger than we; not smart.

 

[BigAl07]

Wow, I can't believe that you can get a 107 with out any practical exam!

Exactly. While having your Part 107 does ensure you were exposed to some degree of education it does nothing to demonstrate you understand the subject matter or know how to safely (I didn't say proficiently because that's another ball of wax) operate a sUAS. To make matters worse, there are several online "Schools" who are proud to "Teach you how to pass the test" rather than teaching you the subject matter and being able to use that knowledge in Real-World applications. It's fact that many people will pass the test and then jump online and ask questions so basic and simple you know they merely studied "answers" and got lucky on how they chose 1, 2, 3, or 4.

As I stated in my last Post you have to have had a minimum of 5 hrs of UAV flights here in Australia, and if you average that to 15 mins [on average] per flight, you then need to complete at least 33.33 flights, and to get your Remote Pilots Licence you have to also pass a proficiency test can consist of any the following:

To fly for our Emergency Services you have to have a min of 100hrs logged as RPIC. While that # seems kind of daunting it's fairly easy to accomplish in a short period of time when you're flying for training and/or proficiency.

• Flying in a Square - Forward, left, Back, right... etc
• Flying in a Square with turns
• Fling in a Figure 8 - forwards and back
• Fly in a Figure 8 with turns
• Fly from left to right at a 45o angle upwards and back down - going slow simulation of bridge inspection.
• Flying in ATTI mode - with out GPS [did this on a Phantom 3]
• Completing a RTH
• You also need to show Pre-flight checks and post flights

Excellent Real-World exercises.Those are very similar to what we teach and require our students/pilots to be able to manage. Also we toss in Emergency Procedures (Loss of Control, Loss of Video Feed etc). We also teach some High Stress Flying (with someone standing over your shoulder telling you what they want you to do etc), precision flying (under an EZ Up, through open windows, landing behind an object, and landing in very tight quarters. All things that we do day in and day out when flying in the role of Emergency Services aSUAS operator.

Can you get Insurance with out one?
Most likely yes but in reality you shouldn't be able to. Many operators skip insurance... bad idea... VERY bad idea.

How much does it cost to get your 107?
Test alone is $150

Are you only regulated to flying up to 2kgs?
55lbs, under 100 mph and a few other lax stipulations.

Would the 107 be similar to our Remote Pilots Licence? or Remote Operators Certificate?
Part 107 is the FAA's Remote Pilot In Commend credential.