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Gather around children, and let me be blunt...

Acuity9

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Joined
Jan 12, 2018
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Age
61
Hi there.

First time in a long time I've been here, because my first experience was with a thread about who wants to be called a "pilot" or not.

But lets forget that childish thread.

How about this?- "I want to make money, how do I do it?"

<BEGIN RANT>

The answer to this kiddies, is to NOT ***EVER*** TAKE THE PRICE THAT SOMEONE OFFERS.

I had a recent experience that shows me a couple things;

1. People are more concerned with flying drones "and getting paid for it", than making A REAL, SUSTAINABLE, BUSINESS MODEL INCOME.

2. People don't know JACK about business, and will come out of the woodwork to undercut others so that CUSTOMERS WILL EXPECT NO NEGOTIATION, AND CAN GET AWAY WITH STATING WHAT THEY WILL PAY, RATHER THAN BEING TOLD THEY NEED TO PAY A PRICE, THAT IS A SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL FEE.

3. People answering ads ARE LARGELY NOT PART 107 RATED, HAVE NO LIABILITY INSURANCE, AND ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT SO AS TO FEED #1 and #2 ABOVE.

----------------

1. Watch this YouTube. WATCH ALL OF IT. Try to UNDERSTAND your work is VALUABLE. You WILL NOT "make money" by letting customers TELL YOU WHAT THEY WILL PAY. And PAY ATTENTION to the LAST part about NOT UNDERCUTTING THE OTHERS IN THE INDUSTRY.




2. My incident surrounded a blind cattle call by a MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR development corporation for "Drone Pilots" to send them pictures of their properties statewide for $75! I contacted them, told them my fee, and they told me "We have had such a response that we don't need you." I responded that;

"With even minimal travel time, the cost of liability insurance, and equipment, $75 in not a sustainable business model for ANYONE."

*** This is because IT IS NOT. Unless you get constant jobs outside the back door of your house, $75 is NOT sustainable. You know what it REALLY IS? CHUMP CHANGE, and this corporation and others like them KNOW THAT.

*** Those of you ACTUALLY PROPERLY LICENSED AND INSURED ***NEED TO INSTRUCT ALL CUSTOMERS*** they need to ASK for properly licensed individuals, they NEED to REQUIRE copies of their Part 107 licenses, and they NEED to REQUIRE copies of certificates of liability, just as ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL CONTRACTOR. You kids with drones need to understand that SOMEDAY, your drone WILL fly-away, or otherwise drop on somebody, something, or worse, and EVERYONE will be sued. You, the multi-million dollar corporation that told you that they would pay $75, and ANYONE ELSE they can.

Is THAT worth $75?

People- LET'S MAKE SOME MONEY OUT HERE. We CAN do it, but NOT acting like teenagers with drones, undercutting each other, letting customers set the price (have you ever gotten away with that at a store yourself?), and NOT REQUIRING proper credentials.

ACT LIKE YOU'RE IN BUSINESS, not that like you JUST WANT TO FLY YOUR DRONE.

</END RANT>
 
Good information.

Mike F for example does a lot of Hollywood such a TWD andf FOTWD series, and as far as I know he can command as such that he was flashing his new Tesla on a forum.

In my realm, doing inspections I charge for travel expenses and travel time but depending on the specific industry my pricing is different.
 
I didn't know we had "kiddies" on this forum. Most people in business either know the basics, or they learn very quickly.
To me your approach is condescending to say the least, and what I have seen on this forum is intelligent people working to help each other out.
Sure there are times when threads seem simple and maybe unimportant, but the idea here is to share information and learn from each other.
 
I didn't know we had "kiddies" on this forum. Most people in business either know the basics, or they learn very quickly.
To me your approach is condescending to say the least, and what I have seen on this forum is intelligent people working to help each other out.
Sure there are times when threads seem simple and maybe unimportant, but the idea here is to share information and learn from each other.
Never fails. Every so often someone comes along to teach us yokels how to do business;) And then... we have those who'll fly for $75 but will claim in forums they "don't leave the house" for less than a $1,000. Been in business since 2015, seen it all, heard it twice....
 
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People who charge what they want are lucky buggers and those who are willing to work for nothing are fools. The middle ground is very very crowded now

We are living off beans and having to do awful networking events to try and pull work in, You should try been in the UK, the race to the bottom started long ago over here

We have done a few £200 low pay jobs here in the UK, Why? Because i have bills to pay and if i didnt there was a line of folk waiting to take them

The markets saturated and Dji has ruined it even more with an army of inexperienced clowns flying...plain and simple

Some of us will go bust,some will be lucky and survive. And maybe one day i will get my dream wish and get to poke a Dji software engineer in the eye...a man can dream , a man can dream

Either way you have to keep fighting and not fall in a hole
 
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Reactions: John Githens
I believe that might have been my post you just insulted
but that is OK you don't know me and I don't know you so, I will leave it to ignorance, or arrogance, not sure which
 
Hi there.

First time in a long time I've been here, because my first experience was with a thread about who wants to be called a "pilot" or not.

But lets forget that childish thread.

How about this?- "I want to make money, how do I do it?"

<BEGIN RANT>

The answer to this kiddies, is to NOT ***EVER*** TAKE THE PRICE THAT SOMEONE OFFERS.

I had a recent experience that shows me a couple things;

1. People are more concerned with flying drones "and getting paid for it", than making A REAL, SUSTAINABLE, BUSINESS MODEL INCOME.

2. People don't know JACK about business, and will come out of the woodwork to undercut others so that CUSTOMERS WILL EXPECT NO NEGOTIATION, AND CAN GET AWAY WITH STATING WHAT THEY WILL PAY, RATHER THAN BEING TOLD THEY NEED TO PAY A PRICE, THAT IS A SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL FEE.

3. People answering ads ARE LARGELY NOT PART 107 RATED, HAVE NO LIABILITY INSURANCE, AND ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT SO AS TO FEED #1 and #2 ABOVE.

----------------

1. Watch this YouTube. WATCH ALL OF IT. Try to UNDERSTAND your work is VALUABLE. You WILL NOT "make money" by letting customers TELL YOU WHAT THEY WILL PAY. And PAY ATTENTION to the LAST part about NOT UNDERCUTTING THE OTHERS IN THE INDUSTRY.




2. My incident surrounded a blind cattle call by a MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR development corporation for "Drone Pilots" to send them pictures of their properties statewide for $75! I contacted them, told them my fee, and they told me "We have had such a response that we don't need you." I responded that;

"With even minimal travel time, the cost of liability insurance, and equipment, $75 in not a sustainable business model for ANYONE."

*** This is because IT IS NOT. Unless you get constant jobs outside the back door of your house, $75 is NOT sustainable. You know what it REALLY IS? CHUMP CHANGE, and this corporation and others like them KNOW THAT.

*** Those of you ACTUALLY PROPERLY LICENSED AND INSURED ***NEED TO INSTRUCT ALL CUSTOMERS*** they need to ASK for properly licensed individuals, they NEED to REQUIRE copies of their Part 107 licenses, and they NEED to REQUIRE copies of certificates of liability, just as ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL CONTRACTOR. You kids with drones need to understand that SOMEDAY, your drone WILL fly-away, or otherwise drop on somebody, something, or worse, and EVERYONE will be sued. You, the multi-million dollar corporation that told you that they would pay $75, and ANYONE ELSE they can.

Is THAT worth $75?

People- LET'S MAKE SOME MONEY OUT HERE. We CAN do it, but NOT acting like teenagers with drones, undercutting each other, letting customers set the price (have you ever gotten away with that at a store yourself?), and NOT REQUIRING proper credentials.

ACT LIKE YOU'RE IN BUSINESS, not that like you JUST WANT TO FLY YOUR DRONE.

</END RANT>
That ship has already sailed. You cannot stop the undercutting you refer to. It will only get worse. You need to accept it and move on, or find another business model. :cool:
 
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But lets forget that childish thread.

The answer to this kiddies, is to NOT ***EVER*** TAKE THE PRICE THAT SOMEONE OFFERS.

ICUSTOMERS WILL EXPECT NO NEGOTIATION, AND CAN GET AWAY WITH STATING WHAT THEY WILL PAY....
ACT LIKE YOU'RE IN BUSINESS, not that like you JUST WANT TO FLY YOUR DRONE.

I've no idea whether what you wrote makes sense or is helpful, in any way. This is because having seen your rude, patronizing and condescending tone, plus the "shouting" (capital letters), I stopped reading your post.
 
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The only way you stay in business, ANY business, is with repeat clients -- which you have to cultivate -- and that takes time. There are plenty of other providers that will undercut you just to start that relationship and plant their "seeds" before you do. You often need to play that same game and take a hit in the wallet until the time comes (ideally only a few projects into the relationship) where the client prefers to use you over the competition each time and values the quality of your work over your competitors. Once a strong client relationship is established, the client is often more understanding when you slowly increase your pricing -- or they ask more from you which then justifies an increase in your pricing model. Of course, you may lose the client at that point. But if your service is more reliable and your product is of higher caliber than the competition, you will often find that client calling you back in time.

My point is, it takes more than just buying a drone to start a business. Starting a business involves quite a bit of pain and patience at the start. Considering the competition in some areas (like real estate), you will most likely be lucky to break even at the start until a client gets to know you and prefers to use you over the amateurs.
 
To Acuity9... first of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to express exactly some of the same scenarios I've encountered. The Community of Drone Pilots has turned into the ( MOD REMOVED ) When I first started, I subscribed to a half-dozen or so dispatch services in hopes of them serving up a steady stream of work, only to find out it's a handy tool for low-ballers to troll the airwaves for starving artists. Example: one such job was offered to me. The client was very specific about shot style, perspective, etc. Shots A, B, and C form 50 feet. Shots X, Y, and Z from 100 feet, followed up by an orbital and a slow pan, etc, etc. Quite an extensive list. His budget: $40 (Forty USD).

From that day forward, I decided to dig in my heels and do whatever I could to send a message to these guys that I have my limits. All I do now is make sure I hit the "Decline" button in less than 10 seconds... or simply ignore them and hope that other pilots are doing the same and the client eventually gets the message... and pricing integrity is restored to the industry. I'd even venture to say these are the same dynamics that gave SAG (Screen Actors Guild) its start.

This reminds me of the 2 guy selling watermellons at a road-side stand. One buys the watermelons for 50 cents a piece; the other sells them for 2 for $1.00.... and they wonder why they're not making money.

Acuity9 is absolutely spot on in his suspicions about rogue, non-107 pilots (Craigslist is full of them) scooping up business from clueless clients. I've posted on this forum before about this very topic. I've even gone so far as to call my local FAA field office to vent. They understand the situation, but they admit they're overwhelmed when it comes to enforcement.

As reference, I offer the following, entitled "Don't give away your product for free...". There are many other articles on the topic. It shares similarities to what we're talking about here.
 
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Kristina, it wasn't the message Acuity gave, it was the presentation. The area I live in I have very few drone pilots seeking work, but I have had realtors ask for drone work and wanted it done for little or nothing and I won't do it. I charge per photo, travel, and poor client attitudes. I charge $200 for a pano that includes the stitching. I'm definately not overwhelmed with work, and I prefer it that way, but I refuse to give my time away.

I do truly hope that as more and more people want commercial drone pilots that we all will insist on being compensated well for our services.
 
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Kristina, it wasn't the message Acuity gave, it was the presentation. The area I live in I have very few drone pilots seeking work, but I have had realtors ask for drone work and wanted it done for little or nothing and I won't do it. I charge per photo, travel, and poor client attitudes. I charge $200 for a pano that includes the stitching. I'm definately not overwhelmed with work, and I prefer it that way, but I refuse to give my time away.

I do truly hope that as more and more people want commercial drone pilots that we all will insist on being compensated well for our services.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Realtors are the absolute worst. They pride themselves in creating a value proposition for their real estate clients but totally miss the boat when understanding the value proposition of Part 107 pilots, the process and their products .... and expect you to do an entire shoot for $50. I'll quote them anyway at my standard rate, knowing all the while that they'll decline, but in hopes of adding my 2 cents in establishing pricing integrity.
 

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