Grid vs Actual airspace boundary for altitude waiver

[RNCotton]

So, I'm totally expecting to be blasted by a Professional Pilot for asking this question ....

I've been asked to video some fireworks after a baseball game in August. They know that the approval may not come in since it's "short notice" according to the FAA and their "we'll tell you, maybe in 90 days" thing. So I want to make sure I get everything right the first time, or if it's even worth applying due to the way the grid doesn't exactly match the Class B airspace boundary.

The ballpark is outside of the Class B to Surface boundary. However, Class B to surface does cut partially into a grid square on the FAA's published altitude requests that they can authorize. So the grid covers the ballpark, but the ballpark isn't really in Class B to Surface airspace. Make sense?

According to the grid, they will only approve 100' AGL due Class B. They would go 400 since it's at the far edge of the airspace, but there is a hospital heliport nearby. However, the ballpark has the NOTAM issued and contacts the tower prior to the start of the show, and after completion of the show. I would personally call and alert Wing prior.

It's a low altitude show, largest shells being 3" lifted to 500 feet. So I want to request 700 feet, only during the show window.

My questions: When requesting approval, does the FAA go by the grid or the actual Class B airspace boundary?

Anything specific I should mention to tie this in with the NOTAM. I mean, you'd think it would be obvious, I'm requesting permission to film a fireworks display, so there's obviously a NOTAM. But, I want to spell it out.

There's no guarantee this will get approved in time, so I only have one shot to file it and make it right if I even want to hope for getting an approval to 700' for the dates. We're less than 90 days out.


Thanks.

Edit: I may have found a loophole, however ... we're allowed to go 400' above a structure, within 400' of the structure. The light towers! Stay within 400' of those, and I get some extra altitude.

 

[BigAl07]

You go by the airspace on the published sectional. The "Grid" is a lose reference at best "usually" speaking.

That loophole could work but like anything with aviation: If something goes wrong the lowest guy on the totem pole (drone operator) will be held at fault.

 

[RNCotton]

That's what I expected ... the grid is a guide, but it's still a square peg in a round hole.

Thank you, sir.

 

[BigAl07]

That's what I expected ... the grid is a guide, but it's still a square peg in a round hole.

Thank you, sir.

Yes and that's caused many a confused sUAS Operator. Airspace "can" be irregular shapes so they used square grids to keep it easy on THEM.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

So, I'm totally expecting to be blasted by a Professional Pilot for asking this question ....

I've been asked to video some fireworks after a baseball game in August. They know that the approval may not come in since it's "short notice" according to the FAA and their "we'll tell you, maybe in 90 days" thing. So I want to make sure I get everything right the first time, or if it's even worth applying due to the way the grid doesn't exactly match the Class B airspace boundary.

The ballpark is outside of the Class B to Surface boundary. However, Class B to surface does cut partially into a grid square on the FAA's published altitude requests that they can authorize. So the grid covers the ballpark, but the ballpark isn't really in Class B to Surface airspace. Make sense?

According to the grid, they will only approve 100' AGL due Class B. They would go 400 since it's at the far edge of the airspace, but there is a hospital heliport nearby. However, the ballpark has the NOTAM issued and contacts the tower prior to the start of the show, and after completion of the show. I would personally call and alert Wing prior.

It's a low altitude show, largest shells being 3" lifted to 500 feet. So I want to request 700 feet, only during the show window.

My questions: When requesting approval, does the FAA go by the grid or the actual Class B airspace boundary?

Anything specific I should mention to tie this in with the NOTAM. I mean, you'd think it would be obvious, I'm requesting permission to film a fireworks display, so there's obviously a NOTAM. But, I want to spell it out.

There's no guarantee this will get approved in time, so I only have one shot to file it and make it right if I even want to hope for getting an approval to 700' for the dates. We're less than 90 days out.


Thanks.

Edit: I may have found a loophole, however ... we're allowed to go 400' above a structure, within 400' of the structure. The light towers! Stay within 400' of those, and I get some extra altitude.

With these types of questions it would help if you included the ICAO code & coordinates so we can look at the area...

 

[R.Perry]

I don't think you'll get an authorization by the 4th. As a pilot I wouldn't fly anywhere near the fireworks display so I would say your request is very reasonable and a 700 AGL shouldn't be a problem, so hopefully big brother will be kind and grant you a waiver.

I always take the family out on the lake (Lake Don Pedro) every year, and never really considered filming the fireworks from the air mainly because I don't want to fly the drone at night and had no authorization anyway. I think it could make a really cool video. I know last year there were two drones overflying the fireworks and I'll bet a dollar they weren't licensed and of course no waiver.

 

[Stephen Mann]

Edit: I may have found a loophole, however ... we're allowed to go 400' above a structure, within 400' of the structure. The light towers! Stay within 400' of those, and I get some extra altitude.

...As long as the flight does not enter Class-B airspace.

 

[Stephen Mann]

I've flown over fireworks in my Cessna a number of times. Never to watch fireworks, but my flight had me landing after dark when a nearby amusement park lights up a fireworks show. And on occasion, July 4. Here's two observations:
1) Fireworks rarely ever go above 200 ft. I had a friend who is a licensed pyro operator, and he says that their marketing often quote 500 ft because no one ever verifies it. The human eye is the absolutely worst device for measuring height above the ground. (An error I see all the time on this forum). From the ground, fireworks at 200 ft don't look much different than those that are launched higher, so why waste the powder?
2) The show, from the air, is an absolute dud. Fireworks shows are designed for the observer on the ground. From above, it just looks like randomly flashing lights. And you can't hear the "booms" over the engine and wind noise.

If you are looking at getting video of fireworks and you are in legal airspace, note that the fireworks are usually over open fields or bodies of water, so not flying over crowds is likely not an issue. The glowing streaks you see are mostly the size of a grain of salt or a peppercorn. And they are low velocity- how fast can a peppercorn fall? The odds of being hit by one is remarkably small, and if hit, the drone is extremely unlikely to be damaged or brought down. A launched mortar that takes the payload up would definitely destroy a drone if you happen to fly directly over the launcher. If your drone is a hundred yards upwind (to stay out of the smoke) and not over crowds and otherwise legal from the FAA, then you can get some interesting shots. If you are flying for hire (Part 107) then you will need a night waiver.

 

[RNCotton]

Thanks, Stephen.

The Class B airspace and the ball park are at opposite extreme edges of the grid, so no danger of wandering into B airspace. I already have the night waiver, so no worries there. Largest shells are 3". With 75' per inch for safety requirements, they have to launch a minimum of 225'. My day job is with the FD, so I know the Inspector and the pyro guys. Most of their stuff is about 300', with volleys to 500'. They have to go higher than the apartment building with balconies literally at the outfield wall overlooking left center field.

Their main goal for this is to have the ballpark in the frame with the fireworks. Of course, I keep trying to tell them that "All the lights are off in the ballpark, so it's not going to be the awesome photo or video you think it will be." But hey, it's their money.

Audio will be added in post. Music bed from the synchronized soundtrack for the show, with Swoosh ... Swoosh ... bang bang ... ooooo ... aaaaaahhhhhh ...

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks, Stephen.

The Class B airspace and the ball park are at opposite extreme edges of the grid, so no danger of wandering into B airspace. I already have the night waiver, so no worries there. Largest shells are 3". With 75' per inch for safety requirements, they have to launch a minimum of 225'. My day job is with the FD, so I know the Inspector and the pyro guys. Most of their stuff is about 300', with volleys to 500'. They have to go higher than the apartment building with balconies literally at the outfield wall overlooking left center field.

Their main goal for this is to have the ballpark in the frame with the fireworks. Of course, I keep trying to tell them that "All the lights are off in the ballpark, so it's not going to be the awesome photo or video you think it will be." But hey, it's their money.

Audio will be added in post. Music bed from the synchronized soundtrack for the show, with Swoosh ... Swoosh ... bang bang ... ooooo ... aaaaaahhhhhh ...

How did this turn out?

 

[RNCotton]

How did this turn out?

We haven't flown the mission yet, but we're going to be fine without having to request airspace.