How do you guys handle misinformed, overzealous, or grumpy Law Enforcement? (Or Jurisdiction Conflicts?)

[adm_geomatics]

Many departments across the country are "investing" in UAS programs and UAS Education and most (not all) are doing it correctly with the proper training. We've worked with over 3 dozen departments locally over the last 2 years and have more coming on board almost every few weeks.

In my opinion we should be the ones training them. Our user base has the widest array of use cases and have actually been through the licensing process. Plus, there's nothing like practical experience.

 

[BigAl07]

In my opinion we should be the ones training them. Our user base has the widest array of use cases and have actually been through the licensing process. Plus, there's nothing like practical experience.

I do agree to a certain extent. There is a LOT to be said for the experience of hundreds of hours of flight time etc when it comes to "this is how you fly the Drone".

Sometimes our "user base" isn't overly familiar with what LE/Public Safety need from the UAS so it's hard to teach them the way they need to know and learn. Outside of our LEO members here, how many of us know how to community with Incident Command? How many understand exactly what information/data LEO need from a standoff?

I think it needs to be a multi-source endeavor but yes I do agree that highly experienced UAS operators are who need to be doing the basic training for Public Safety Depts.

 

[adm_geomatics]

I do agree to a certain extent. There is a LOT to be said for the experience of hundreds of hours of flight time etc when it comes to "this is how you fly the Drone".

Sometimes our "user base" isn't overly familiar with what LE/Public Safety need from the UAS so it's hard to teach them the way they need to know and learn. Outside of our LEO members here, how many of us know how to community with Incident Command? How many understand exactly what information/data LEO need from a standoff?

I think it needs to be a multi-source endeavor but yes I do agree that highly experienced UAS operators are who need to be doing the basic training for Public Safety Depts.

Totally true, I think a sufficiently experienced pilot for that type of training would be a dime in a dozen, but if they are familiar with TPAC and the procedures of DECAMP then they know how to answer those question, but the most important part is the "How do you run a successful drone program?" piece. They know how to do the rest.

 

[Mavic Mac]

One item that may be a problem is the certification of the trainer. Yes, you have Part 107 and you have flown x number of hours but what can you show that you are certified to instruct ?

I use to teach at a regional VFD training center and at various fire houses but I had taken hours of instructor courses to get my certification to teach.

 

[adm_geomatics]

One item that may be a problem is the certification of the trainer. Yes, you have Part 107 and you have flown x number of hours but what can you show that you are certified to instruct ?

I use to teach at a regional VFD training center and at various fire houses but I had taken hours of instructor courses to get my certification to teach.

There's no such thing as a UAV FAA Certified sUAS Instructor so I am not quite sure what the question is. If you think you need to be a law enforcement instructor then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Point is how do I fly a drone and run a drone program? Go get your 107 license and follow the regulations just like the rest of us except for the fact that you have special exemptions being in public service officer.

 

[Airmapper]

From these comments I'm seeing 2 distinct differences here in the idea of "training" LEO in regard to drones.

Teaching LE about legal drone operations and interacting with drone pilots, both recreational and commercial. (i.e the cop that comes up and says "whatcha doin..")

Teaching LE how to utilize drones in their department. (A department drone program.)

These two should be distinct and separate. All LE should (but probably won't) get the former and it can be relatively straightforward. Only LE officers designated a pilot or involved in flights need the latter and it's going to be a much more involved matter probably resulting in one or more individuals getting a Part 107 or COA.

Of course teaching others is a skill all it's own. I'd rather be taught a subject by someone who might not be great at in practice but understands the subject and can teach, than learn from an expert who is not good at teaching. Being good at something does not translate to transferring that knowledge, ask anyone that has ever wanted me to show them how to do something on a computer... but as @chasco says, I don't think there is any official way to certify anyone is a good drone teacher.

As far as LE use of drones, I think they will have their own world of hurt coming down the line in regard to legal use. Overzealous drone hating cops may have this turn around and bite them when it comes thier turn to use them for LE work. I've already been seeing laws in the pipeline to shut them down from using drones as an "anything goes" method of surveillance that bypasses warrants and due process and requiring them to get pilot credentials as they should.

 

[Mavic Mac]

There's no such thing as a UAV FAA Certified sUAS Instructor so I am not quite sure what the question is. If you think you need to be a law enforcement instructor then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Point is how do I fly a drone and run a drone program? Go get your 107 license and follow the regulations just like the rest of us except for the fact that you have special exemptions being in public service officer.

There are many people that are Part 107 certified that have many hours flying - that does not make them a teacher. The instructor has to be able to develop and deliver a lesson plan that meets the criteria of the agency.

 

[adm_geomatics]

There are many people that are Part 107 certified that have many hours flying - that does not make them a teacher. The instructor has to be able to develop and deliver a lesson plan that meets the criteria of the agency.

Right, but the fact remains is that there is no such thing as a certified drone flight instructor. There are people that are good practically and there are people that are very knowledgeable that are terrible teachers. I think we're kind of on the same lines, but saying different things.

 

[Mavic Mac]

Right, but the fact remains is that there is no such thing as a certified drone flight instructor. There are people that are good practically and there are people that are very knowledgeable that are terrible teachers. I think we're kind of on the same lines, but saying different things.

We can go back and forth forever - a certified instructor can develop the lesson plans.
There are way to become a certified instructor. THIS is just place that certifies instructors. NFPA is one that certifies fire instructors.

 

[adm_geomatics]

We can go back and forth forever - a certified instructor can develop the lesson plans.
There are way to become a certified instructor. THIS is just place that certifies instructors. NFPA is one that certifies fire instructors.

Please provide the resource on how to become a certified drone instructor. CFI's are MANNED aircraft ONLY and we're not talking about law enforcement curriculum.

 

[PatR]

This is an area where I think the FAA should get involved. Development of a drone specific instruction program aside, I believe anyone teaching a flight course should have, at minimum, passed the FAA fundamentals of instruction course. That is the cornerstone for which all other flight instruction courses are built on.

As for who teaches law enforcement, a little light research will show they tend to work totally within the established law enforcement and military communities. They maintain much better control of their information, use a common structure, and end up with less confusion. Companies that desire to enter such a training field would do well by hiring people with a long previous history in law enforcement and LEA training and use them and their credentials to build and market their products.

 

[adm_geomatics]

This is an area where I think the FAA should get involved. Development of a drone specific instruction program aside, I believe anyone teaching a flight course should have, at minimum, passed the FAA fundamentals of instruction course. That is the cornerstone for which all other flight instruction courses are built on.

As for who teaches law enforcement, a little light research will show they tend to work totally within the established law enforcement and military communities. They maintain much better control of their information, use a common structure, and end up with less confusion. Companies that desire to enter such a training field would do well by hiring people with a long previous history in law enforcement and LEA training and use them and their credentials to build and market their products.

Interesting how deep this gets when all we were talking about was showing a department how a drone is flown, what typical SOPs are in our community and where they can go to move forward. Suddenly we are LE training instructors and hiring MQ-1 operators. Good thing I know one.

I'm going to go back to the OP and start another heated debate. What do you all think about having to notify property owners of drone operations over or near their property? No other restrictions apply. I say they can watch me fly until I'm done. Of course there are professional courtesies to consider.

 

[PatR]

All I can say is nobody in the military, law enforcement, civilian, or utility inspection services bothers to let me know in advance when they will be conducting low alt helicopter ops over or near my property. The LEA and military stuff can “see” a heck of a lot more than our drones can. Certainly none of the air carriers or private pilots have ever called ahead to let me know of their intent to disturb.

Living as I do out in the country, away from the hustle and bustle of the city and airports, you would think some courtesy should be extended to us private property owning, earthbound inhabitants...

 

[Mavic Mac]

Please provide the resource on how to become a certified drone instructor. CFI's are MANNED aircraft ONLY and we're not talking about law enforcement curriculum.

I never said a FAA certified instructor - If you wish to teach the fire service - put in the time to become a certified instructor in the fire service - determine what the fire service needs/requires for the drone training and develop the plan.

When I was involved in the fire service I recognized the need for training in a specific area. I invested the time to become a certified instructor - developed the plan - had it approved by the regional school director and taught the plan. It was then picked up and used in the state school.

 

[PatR]

How does one become “certified” when there are no certification standards?

 

[adm_geomatics]

How does one become “certified” when there are no certification standards?

It appears that Mavic Mac was referring to actual LE instructor training when we were all talking about, maybe in better terms, consulting LE on drone operations.

 

[PatR]

That clarification would make sense.

 

[Mavic Mac]

I was replying to @chasco's post #41 and his response to @BigAl07's post #40

Maybe I should have used the term accredited to prevent confusion. There are places that train instructors. In my post #49 I put a link to one such place

I taught in the fire service and received my training through NFPA and was nationally certified to teach

 

[adm_geomatics]

I was replying to @chasco's post #41 and his response to @BigAl07's post #40

Maybe I should have used the term accredited to prevent confusion. There are places that train instructors. In my post #49 I put a link to one such place

I taught in the fire service and received my training through NFPA and was nationally certified to teach

Nationally certified to teach what? While I can train while consulting you are right that accreditation is completely different than certification especially in the realm of what this thread has been talking about.

You're still missing the point. We're not becoming full-time trainers or instructors. If you are a seasoned veteran, know what you're talking about, are good at your job and a good teacher then you are as accredited as you need to be. I have enough degrees, certifications and continuing education credits in what I do that I don't need training or instruction to learn how to be a trainer or instructor when I am teaching a skill that has nothing to do with what who I am training does.

 

[BigAl07]

Nationally certified to teach what? While I can train while consulting you are right that accreditation is completely different than certification especially in the realm of what this thread has been talking about.

You're still missing the point. We're not becoming full-time trainers or instructors. If you are a seasoned veteran, know what you're talking about, are good at your job and a good teacher then you are as accredited as you need to be. I have enough degrees, certifications and continuing education credits in what I do that I don't need training or instruction to learn how to be a trainer or instructor when I am teaching a skill that has nothing to do with what who I am training does.

I'm with you @chasco. I've got a closet full of certifctions, degrees, and credits as well as I'm also an instructor on the local and state level and for the local college. None of those matter because as of right now they are all just papers that have no merit in UAS realms. I could be a guy who bought a Phantom at Best Buy because there are no "Standards" created yet for us.