Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash

Capt Binkley · Feb 1, 2020

Dave Pitman said:
Sorry, not true. The AI, altimeter, VSI and airspeed indicator would have all been telling him all he needed to know. Unfortunately, it is common for pilots loosing visual cues to become disoriented and begin to trust the "seat of their pants" rather than the flight instruments leading to controlled flight into terrain. It's hard to believe that you wouldn't be able to tell you are descending, even accelerating downward, but it has unfortunately been proven over and over.

It's the same thing that killed John Kennedy Jr.

It is very very weird when you experience it. One of my most vivid memories was when doing some IFR work with an instructor. We were flying straight and level, then upon entering a cloud bank, everything in my head was telling me we were in a climbing right turn.

The brain is hard wired to make sense of the world around it through visual ques. When those visual ques disappear, it just starts making up stuff.

BryanD · Feb 1, 2020

SanCap said:
36 miles during certain times of the day in that location can take 3 hours by car. That is one of the reasons I do not live there and turn down work in that area.

I have only been in that area once. I know the traffic there can be bad. But this was a Sunday morning just before 10 AM so I thought the traffic at that time would probably be at least somewhat light. Maybe an hour drive? I dont kn

R.Perry · Feb 2, 2020

Capt Binkley said:
It's the same thing that killed John Kennedy Jr.

It is very very weird when you experience it. One of my most vivid memories was when doing some IFR work with an instructor. We were flying straight and level, then upon entering a cloud bank, everything in my head was telling me we were in a climbing right turn.

The brain is hard wired to make sense of the world around it through visual ques. When those visual ques disappear, it just starts making up stuff.

Spacial disorientation can happen to anyone. That is why when you begin IFR flight training the instructor will put the plane in different configurations and then tell you to fly straight and level. The more you learn to trust your instruments the less you depend of the bodies scenes. I was taught you lose faith in your instruments, you will eventually kill yourself, and whomever is with you.

AH-1G · Feb 2, 2020

The Sikorsky S-76B wasn't equipped with a Terrain Awareness and Warning System, or TAWS, a device that warns pilots of mountains hiding in the mist ahead

When they suddenly fly into bad weather, copter pilots call it "going IMC," for instrument meteorological conditions. Wise ones will turn back, transition from flying based on what they can see to what their instruments are telling them

NTSB investigators said the accident resulted from the pilot’s decision to fly in unsafe conditions, "which resulted in loss of control due to spatial disorientation. Contributing to the accident was the pilot's self-induced pressure to complete the mission."

It's that can-do attitude, Bailey said, that kills pilots.
"The truth is, it doesn't matter how much safety equipment we have if people are going to do stupid stuff," said Pia Bergqvist

R.Perry · Feb 3, 2020

There are old pilots, and bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots with a few exceptions.

2edgesword · Feb 3, 2020

He was a very experienced pilot and sounds like a stand up guy but even an experienced and normally cautious person can have a moment of making bad decisions, and in many cases it is a chain of bad decisions that leads to an accident like this. The tragedy is eight other people entrusted their lives to this pilot and it cost them their lives. I felt that responsibility anytime I was piloting with passengers in the days when I was flying manned aircraft (my wife, kids, friends, their kids, etc). It was never for hire flying with any pressure to be somewhere at a given time. But the ultimately goal is always to get there in one piece. This is a very, very sad situation that was very much preventable by making a good decision earlier in the process. I really wonder if at any point there was the nagging voice in his head saying "this isn't a good idea".

Philztoy · Feb 3, 2020

2edgesword said:
He was a very experienced pilot and sounds like a stand up guy but even an experienced and normally cautious person can have a moment of making bad decisions, and in many cases it is a chain of bad decisions that leads to an accident like this. The tragedy is eight other people entrusted their lives to this pilot and it cost them their lives. I felt that responsibility anytime I was piloting with passengers in the days when I was flying manned aircraft (my wife, kids, friends, their kids, etc). It was never for hire flying with any pressure to be somewhere at a given time. But the ultimately goal is always to get there in one piece. This is a very, very sad situation that was very much preventable by making a good decision earlier in the process. I really wonder if at any point there was the nagging voice in his head saying "this isn't a good idea".

Yeah unclear why he went. I am guessing the fog would have burned off or blown out after awhile. They probably HAD to get there. He must not have thought it was as bad as it was and gave in. There is no way he would have flown if he knew he was going to be in zero visibility. It probably looked ok until he hit a wall of fog. Plus the terrain was pretty hairy.

That is one thing I like about flying drones. A lot lower PIC risk during flight.

Then again, I never stepped out of flying a helicopter without a grin on my face! It is always like a 3 dimensional motorcycle to me!

R.Perry · Feb 3, 2020

I have flown many charters in a variety of aircraft. My passengers schedule was never considered if it meant taking risks, and yes a couple times I had angry passengers because they didn't get to their destination but an alternate due to weather.

R Martin · Feb 3, 2020

RP,
The key point is they got there. Unlike Koby. Lesson in this for all of us.

AH-1G · Feb 3, 2020

I'm wondering why if at all the pilot didn't ask were the tops are (blue sky)? Usually other pilots will let control know so they can pass it on. He should have ascended. But it is what it is, all we can do is just speculate.

R.Perry · Feb 4, 2020

AH-1G said:
I'm wondering why if at all the pilot didn't ask were the tops are (blue sky)? Usually other pilots will let control know so they can pass it on. He should have ascended. But it is what it is, all we can do is just speculate.

The ATC communications was up and the pilot at on point while he was holding for Burbank IFR traffic requested clearance to on top, not sure why it wasn't given other that that may have placed him too close to inbound IFR Traffic. Burbank is a very busy airport.

Reality is we can speculate all we want, it will be interesting what NTSB comes up with, because of the public and political interest in this some air controller heads might roll on this one. Mainly, why did they allow him to continue VFR.

Dave Pitman · Feb 4, 2020

2edgesword said:
I really wonder if at any point there was the nagging voice in his head saying "this isn't a good idea".

Oh, without a doubt, I would think.

AH-1G · Feb 4, 2020

R.Perry said:
The ATC communications was up and the pilot at on point while he was holding for Burbank IFR traffic requested clearance to on top, not sure why it wasn't given other that that may have placed him too close to inbound IFR Traffic. Burbank is a very busy airport.

However as you know they could easily have separated him from IFR, I would have insisted to ATC I'm in deep soup here and need a way out, NOW!

Capt Binkley · Feb 4, 2020

AH-1G said:
However as you know they could easily have separated him from IFR, I would have insisted to ATC I'm in deep soup here and need a way out, NOW!

Unfortunately, he was probably in full on OH CRAP mode before he figured out what kind of a mess he was in. At that point, panic sets in and that close to the ground... well...

R.Perry · Feb 5, 2020

AH-1G said:
However as you know they could easily have separated him from IFR, I would have insisted to ATC I'm in deep soup here and need a way out, NOW!

Remember the warning signs of pilot ego, the more dominate the personality the less likelihood help would be requested. Most seasoned pilots know the thing that will get you killed quicker than anything is panic, because once panic sets in rational thinking goes out the door. We have no way of knowing this pilots personality other than what may come out later, what we do know is he screwed up, and personally I think ATC did also.

Just think, if you are an ATC controller, you have dense fog, IFR conditions and now you have an helicopter pilot wanting to transit your area under VFR flight rules, special or not he didn't he have the visibility. I think ATC should have told him to continue to hold and file IFR and wait for clearance.

I was at the Coumbia, CA airport and asked a retired FAA guy that I know what he thought. He looked at me and said, "The pilot and ATC screwed the pooch", he is a man of few words.

It is so sad when people die over someone eases negligence, it doesn't mater if they were celebrities, they were people that wanted to live a full life.

SanCap · Feb 5, 2020

"Just think, if you are an ATC controller, you have dense fog, IFR conditions and now you have an helicopter pilot wanting to transit your area under VFR flight rules, special or not he didn't he have the visibility. I think ATC should have told him to continue to hold and file IFR and wait for clearance. "

I do not think that is the responsibility of ATC. I believe the pilot was asked a couple of times if he was still VFR and acknowledged. He was warned VFR following was not possible. Poor decisions on one and only one person impacted many people besides who were in the aircraft.

Even without a mechanical failure if there was one, in that situation the pilot would have failed a risk assesment analysis evaluation if one was completed.

2edgesword · Feb 7, 2020

R.Perry said:
The ATC communications was up and the pilot at on point while he was holding for Burbank IFR traffic requested clearance to on top, not sure why it wasn't given other that that may have placed him too close to inbound IFR Traffic. Burbank is a very busy airport.

Reality is we can speculate all we want, it will be interesting what NTSB comes up with, because of the public and political interest in this some air controller heads might roll on this one. Mainly, why did they allow him to continue VFR.

I think you may be mistaken about the requested clearance to on top. I read the full transcript of the conversations with ATC and he never request a clearance to on top.

ATC Transcript

Philztoy · Feb 8, 2020

NTSB releases photo of Kobe Bryant helicopter flying into cloud before crash
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...aacf7d3b80c17083a22/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

R.Perry · Feb 8, 2020

2edgesword said:
I think you may be mistaken about the requested clearance to on top. I read the full transcript of the conversations with ATC and he never request a clearance to on top.

ATC Transcript

You are correct, my mistake.

2edgesword · Feb 8, 2020

Based on the details in the report it appears the pilot made the decision to climb through the clouds to get on top. He did not have authorization to do that but in an emergency you can deviate from any rule If you feeling it's required in an emergency. While in the clouds the helicopter began an increasing steep left descending turn, accelerating an ultimately hitting terrain. It's beginning to sound more and more like flight into IMC to stay above terrain and break out on top (tops reported about 2,500 but might have been higher), loss of orientation leading to flying into terrain.

His last instrument check ride was in May of 2019 (about 7 months prior). Of course any instrument pilot will wonder why he wasn't able to maintain control given he had and instrument rating and was an instrument instructor.