LAANC South Central rollout

mdurbanek · Apr 27, 2018

Does anyone know if the LAANC rollout scheduled for the South Central region is good to go for this coming Monday April 30?

BigAl07 · Apr 27, 2018

mdurbanek said:
Does anyone know if the LAANC rollout scheduled for the South Central region is good to go for this coming Monday April 30?

The FAA has been tight lipped about this up to now. Hopefully they will give us a good surprise and make it happen on time.

mdurbanek · Apr 30, 2018

OK, I just ran an experimental test of the LAANC beta. I chose a regional airport listed as a participant in the initial rollout in South Central, and chose a flight location 4.5 miles away from the airport. Planned the flight in two days' time on Skyward, and they did give me an immediate "Notice of Authorization".

But here's the catch: I still must wait for an ATC Review and notice via email before I could fly. They say it will take 1-30 days. Not ideal, but we'll see what happens next.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Apr 30, 2018

So the " immediate "Notice of Authorization" we've gotten used to like the one below

is no good until you get another email?
So much for immediate. Could you post the Skyward authorization? Thanks

mdurbanek · Apr 30, 2018

Sure Luis - being paranoid, I redacted some stuff, but it's the same as yours, except for the "Pending ATC Review"

zalo · Apr 30, 2018

I just performed a test through Skyward.io and was given an immediate Notice of Authorization for an operation later today. I don't see anything regarding an ATC review before I can fly. Where are you seeing the ATC review notice?

LUIS MARTINEZ · Apr 30, 2018

mdurbanek said:
Sure Luis - being paranoid, I redacted some stuff, but it's the same as yours, except for the "Pending ATC Review"
View attachment 477

Thanks, that sucks. I just did a test application on one of the newly approved LAANCs in my area (Falcon Field, PHX sectional) to test it and did not get the "Pending ATC Review" entry. Guess I'm lucky....

mdurbanek · Apr 30, 2018

Luis - I didn't realize Arizona was in South Central. Good for you. For my experiment, I used a location in Texas.

zalo · Apr 30, 2018

Mine has an FAA Reference number.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Apr 30, 2018

LUIS MARTINEZ said:
Thanks, that sucks. I just did a test application on one of the newly approved LAANCs in my area (Falcon Field, PHX sectional) to test it and did not get the "Pending ATC Review" entry. Guess I'm lucky....

mdurbanek said:
Luis - I didn't realize Arizona was in South Central. Good for you. For my experiment, I used a location in Texas.

I was quite surprised when I read your posting, as AZ wasn't on the time table until June, if it wasn't for you I would have never checked..so thanks!!!!

mdurbanek · Apr 30, 2018

zalo said:
I just performed a test through Skyward.io and was given an immediate Notice of Authorization for an operation later today. I don't see anything regarding an ATC review before I can fly. Where are you seeing the ATC review notice?

zalo - it's posted now. I'm glad you got an OK.

Listen everybody, there are a lot of possible reasons and perfection is unattainable. We're awfully fortunate that a lot of smart people have taken on this task, and I hope it will straighten itself out.

What we all want is safe commercial flying and a place at this table. Remember this is going to be a whole new thing for ATC as well.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Apr 30, 2018

zalo said:
Mine has an FAA Reference number.

They all do.

Kristina Fowler · Apr 30, 2018

I was under the distinct impression that all control towers listed on the FAA Facilities map with a grid overlay would be good to go with the automated LAANC system. See Facilities Map HERE.That is not the case. The rollout is for "FAA Towers" only. "FCT Towers" (Federal Contract Towers) are not on the list, even though they're listed on the FAA Facilities Map with grid overlays. FCT Towers are often seen in smaller cities with Class D airspace. Per my phone call to the FAA today, this was not conveyed properly and left the general public with the impression every airport with a grid overlay would be in the rollout. After the FAA completes rollout for FAA Towers, they’ll begin rollout for FCT Towers (Phase 2). They estimate/best guess this will happen sometime in October 2018.

LUIS MARTINEZ · Apr 30, 2018

Kristina Fowler said:
I was under the distinct impression that all control towers listed on the FAA Facilities map with a grid overlay would be good to go with the automated LAANC system. See Facilities Map HERE.That is not the case. The rollout is for "FAA Towers" only. "FCT Towers" (Federal Contract Towers) are not on the list, even though they're listed on the FAA Facilities Map with grid overlays. FCT Towers are often seen in smaller cities with Class D airspace. Per my phone call to the FAA today, this was not conveyed properly and left the general public with the impression every airport with a grid overlay would be in the rollout. After the FAA completes rollout for FAA Towers, they’ll begin rollout for FCT Towers (Phase 2). They estimate/best guess this will happen sometime in October 2018.

Bummer, Glad everyone of my green LAANCs are granting waivers.....

mdurbanek · Apr 30, 2018

Kristina Fowler said:
I was under the distinct impression that all control towers listed on the FAA Facilities map with a grid overlay would be good to go with the automated LAANC system. See Facilities Map HERE.That is not the case. The rollout is for "FAA Towers" only. "FCT Towers" (Federal Contract Towers) are not on the list, even though they're listed on the FAA Facilities Map with grid overlays. FCT Towers are often seen in smaller cities with Class D airspace. Per my phone call to the FAA today, this was not conveyed properly and left the general public with the impression every airport with a grid overlay would be in the rollout. After the FAA completes rollout for FAA Towers, they’ll begin rollout for FCT Towers (Phase 2). They estimate/best guess this will happen sometime in October 2018.

That makes sense Kristina. We have two Ventura County-owned airports, Camarillo and Oxnard. Oxnard is a FCT tower but Camarillo is FAA. Camarillo is in the beta and Oxnard is not.

That's the value in this commercial forum - we can piece information together that is otherwise not obvious.

R Martin · May 1, 2018

Federal Contract Towers | Air Traffic Control
The above is a listing of FCTs or Federal Contract Towers. I called my local airpatch manager because KDTO was not part of the South Central rollout for LAANC and was informed that they have chosen not to participate at this time in LAANC. So I am still going to have to rely on CoAs although we (government) get a faster response than normal commercial operators. Good thing I filed my renewals two months ahead of time.

mdurbanek · May 2, 2018

Interesting email from Skyward...

**************************************************************************************
"Re: Operation - Mariah Hills GC

Your request to fly at a higher altitude than the published limit near BPT on 2018-05-02 14:00:00.0 UTC has been cancelled due to not receiving a response from the FAA within 24 hours of the requested flight.

To fly in this specific grid, we recommend:
• Recreating the request and submitting to the FAA again, or
• Reduce your requested altitude to the published limit and submit again."

**************************************************************************************

Relevant issues:

when I made this digital request for a 200' AGL flight 4.8 miles from the airport, 52 hours into the future, the maximum AGL was listed as 0'.
Skyward gave me a digital authorization (but no FAA Ref. #), contingent upon ATC email approval, within 1-31 days.
the next morning, I received the above email from Skyward. It suggests that my request was cancelled because I did not receive an FAA response within 24 hours of the requested flight.

So...I was refused because FAA (ATC?) neglected to respond 24 hours before my requested operation (they had 28 hours to do so). I realize that there are many reasons of which I may not be aware that my flight was problematic. But at the very least it suggests that this particular tower was not able to communicate it's situation to me.

So Skyward: we working photographer/pilots can't afford this lack of communication. Give me direction and understandable explanations so that I can know how to avoid this problem at that location in the future. The alternative is that a scofflaw pilot will avoid the FAA hassle and fly/shoot the job without ANY kind of authorization. And my legitimate commercial business has lost real money because I chose to deal with you.

We are NOT the Federal Government where money is no object. This is the real, public sector.

FAA and ATC for these small airports must realize that their failure to communicate and get with the program is what will ultimately cause airspace conflicts.

LUIS MARTINEZ · May 2, 2018

mdurbanek said:
Interesting email from Skyward...

**************************************************************************************
"Re: Operation - Mariah Hills GC

Your request to fly at a higher altitude than the published limit near BPT on 2018-05-02 14:00:00.0 UTC has been cancelled due to not receiving a response from the FAA within 24 hours of the requested flight.

To fly in this specific grid, we recommend:
• Recreating the request and submitting to the FAA again, or
• Reduce your requested altitude to the published limit and submit again."

**************************************************************************************

Relevant issues:

when I made this digital request for a 200' AGL flight 4.8 miles from the airport, 52 hours into the future, the maximum AGL was listed as 0'.

Skyward gave me a digital authorization (but no FAA Ref. #), contingent upon ATC email approval, within 1-31 days.

the next morning, I received the above email from Skyward. It suggests that my request was cancelled because I did not receive an FAA response within 24 hours of the requested flight.

So...I was refused because FAA (ATC?) neglected to respond 24 hours before my requested operation (they had 28 hours to do so). I realize that there are many reasons of which I may not be aware that my flight was problematic. But at the very least it suggests that this particular tower was not able to communicate it's situation to me.

So Skyward: we working photographer/pilots can't afford this lack of communication. Give me direction and understandable explanations so that I can know how to avoid this problem at that location in the future. The alternative is that a scofflaw pilot will avoid the FAA hassle and fly/shoot the job without ANY kind of authorization. And my legitimate commercial business has lost real money because I chose to deal with you.

We are NOT the Federal Government where money is no object. This is the real, public sector.

FAA and ATC for these small airports must realize that their failure to communicate and get with the program is what will ultimately cause airspace conflicts.

The only sensible reply is what General McAuliffe told the Germans at Bastogne....