Welcome, Commercial Drone Pilots!
Join our growing community today!
Sign up

Looking for advice on a startup

Kyle_lukow

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
4
Age
25
Hi everyone,

I’m researching how best to start an LLC using sUAV’s for precision agriculture but also would be open to doing other jobs such as inspections and construction monitoring. I have experience flying the RQ11B raven with the military. I plan on taking the part 107 when I’m back on the civilian side. I have $10,000 maximum to invest for the drone, computer, software or anything else I will need. I’ve looked at Sentera’s single sensors on the Mavic 2 pro, however I’m unsure if the single sensor will do everything a farmer would expect me to do. My other option is an Inspire 2 with a better sensor which I could also swap the cameras to offer other services.

I’m in the beginning stages and would greatly appreciate any help and advice I could get. If this makes a difference I’m from Pennsylvania so the farms aren't like the ones out west.

Thank you for your time
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skyflyer129
My wife's family are all farmers, and so far the drone idea hasn't caught on with them. Obviously the what your producing is a big factor. I have showed them how we can use the drones, but they are pretty much old school.
 
I'm not a farmer, but I live in the midwest, so does that count for anything? I'm guessing farmers aren't looking for 3d point clouds of their fields. A nice stitched map might be cool, but probably won't tell them a huge amount that they wouldn't already know. Most of the core products from places like drone deploy and pix4d are super cool, but maybe not directly beneficial to the ag industry.

From what I've seen of sentera, they are pushing in the direction of fly high, fly fast, get wide area coverage (with not much image overlap), and then they use what they call "direct georeferencing" to place the imagery. So if they know the location and orientation of the camera at the time a picture is taken and the approximate elevation of the ground, they can do the math and plunk down all the pictures right about where they should go. It doesn't produce a seamless perfect stitch, but should put everything in it's proper place within a meter or three. Combine that with true NDVI (or true NDRE) and you can get a pretty good sense of crop health over a wide area. You do actually need near IR or red edge reflectance to get a true measure of crop health. False NDVI is interesting and looks cool, but isn't nearly as accurate and showing true issues. Sentera also has developed a fixed wing solution which flies 3x as long as a quad copter, probably 2x as fast, and covers just that much more field area in a flight.
I'm not in the ag industry, so don't put too much stock in what I say, but if I was going to think about advice I'd give I would make the following comments.

1. Think about this from a business perspective first. Think about all the boring, difficult, time consuming, stressful parts of setting up and running a business first. You are going to spend more time doing those things than being out flying. What specifically you are doing for the business might even be a secondary concern if you don't get a good handle on all the business stuff first. (All that depends on how serious you hope to be ... is this going to be a spare time gig for a bit of extra spending money, or are you trying to go all in and support yourself 100% and grow from there?) You need to provide something that directly saves a farmer money, or is something they think they absolutely need.

2. You are probably going to be competing with crop consultants that have a ton of local and specific knowledge of crops, pests, fungus, irrigation ... they have experience to recognize all those possible issues for crop growing along with knowing good solutions. Your drone flights will probably get paid for from the same money the farmers would have used on an traditional crop consultant that would walk the fields. A farmer is also running a business, so any time they pay to bring in a consultant or outside help, that costs money, and if the information doesn't directly lead to costs savings at the end of the season, they probably aren't going to want to throw away money on things just because they are cool.

But I think there is an argument to be made for drones in agriculture for sure. Sentera and many others have built thriving businesses around that. You just need to show that the information and maps that a drone provides will save a farmer money. If they can spot-spray pesticides for instance, that costs them less, they get similar yields in the end, and bonus there are less pesticides going into the environment and our food supply. Drones are an important part of the larger precision agriculture revolution.

Farmers are making financial tradeoffs all season long ... if they see an issue in their fields, they are weighing the costs of treating it versus the potential lost yield. In some cases letting things go is the wiser financial decision (i.e. take an estimated 20% yield loss versus paying $x per acre to treat the issue.)

3. Sentera might be a good resource for a startup drone service business. They want to sell drones, cameras and analytical software, so I suspect they would be very helpful in showing prospective customers the best ways to use their equipment and how these tools can pay for themselves.

Full disclosure, I know some of the people that work at Sentera because it is a local [to me] company. I really like their company, I think they are doing some great things, and I pull for them every chance I get. (There are lots of other options out there too .... every company has strengths and weaknesses and sentera is no different in that respect.) I ended up taking a university job after treading water for a few years as an entrepreneur, so don't take business advice from me. But if you are just starting out, maybe think smallish, and part time (don't start out way in debt.) Build up experience, build up your fleet. Try to come up with a rate that is acceptable to farmers, but enables you to build your business. Maybe see if you can start out working for someone else just to get a year or three experience in the field.

Again, I don't know anything, I'm just talking here ... use what makes sense for you, just skip what doesn't. Go ahead and correct where I'm wrong, but it's too late for me anyway, save yourself. :) Best wishes! It's super exciting to just be starting out, I'm sure you have some great adventures ahead of you!

Curt.
 
I would think the ability to do construction monitoring, and energy infrastructure surveys and monitoring would pay higher and be more dependable than what you could get with agriculture. How was your business sense? Do you know how to run one? That is going to be the major hurdle if you don’t know how to do it. Cloldonus Has a really good recommendation, getting a job with a company in the industry you want to work for would be the best way to start out.

Here’s a job description from droners.io that perhaps you could use to do some background studying up with:

“This is for a 2 acre solar farm: The two arrays are installed right next to each other. One is a floating array and covers about .9 acres. The other is a ground mount and covers about 1.1 acres. Both arrays are fixed/non-tracking. The total module count is 2,302; system size is 478.82 kW. We would be looking to get visual images in .jpg and ther mal images preferred in .tiff (or possibly RJPG). There would be an initial and brief online training to assess and demonstrate data capture and specifications etc. XT or XT2 is required, but XT2 is recommended - One of our team members would likely meet you on site.

The data collection requires that solar radiance be measured, we would need a minimum of 600 w/m^2, so they would need a separate pyranometer as pointing the XT2's built-in towards the sun could damage it. Approved attire is safety vest, boots, hardhat, safety glasses.

PLEASE ONLY RESPOND IF YOU POSSESS XT OR XT2 - MUST BE WILLING TO PROCURE PYRANOMETER TO ASSESS RADIANCE”
 
Last edited:
I'm not a farmer, but I live in the midwest, so does that count for anything? I'm guessing farmers aren't looking for 3d point clouds of their fields. A nice stitched map might be cool, but probably won't tell them a huge amount that they wouldn't already know. Most of the core products from places like drone deploy and pix4d are super cool, but maybe not directly beneficial to the ag industry.

From what I've seen of sentera, they are pushing in the direction of fly high, fly fast, get wide area coverage (with not much image overlap), and then they use what they call "direct georeferencing" to place the imagery. So if they know the location and orientation of the camera at the time a picture is taken and the approximate elevation of the ground, they can do the math and plunk down all the pictures right about where they should go. It doesn't produce a seamless perfect stitch, but should put everything in it's proper place within a meter or three. Combine that with true NDVI (or true NDRE) and you can get a pretty good sense of crop health over a wide area. You do actually need near IR or red edge reflectance to get a true measure of crop health. False NDVI is interesting and looks cool, but isn't nearly as accurate and showing true issues. Sentera also has developed a fixed wing solution which flies 3x as long as a quad copter, probably 2x as fast, and covers just that much more field area in a flight.
I'm not in the ag industry, so don't put too much stock in what I say, but if I was going to think about advice I'd give I would make the following comments.

1. Think about this from a business perspective first. Think about all the boring, difficult, time consuming, stressful parts of setting up and running a business first. You are going to spend more time doing those things than being out flying. What specifically you are doing for the business might even be a secondary concern if you don't get a good handle on all the business stuff first. (All that depends on how serious you hope to be ... is this going to be a spare time gig for a bit of extra spending money, or are you trying to go all in and support yourself 100% and grow from there?) You need to provide something that directly saves a farmer money, or is something they think they absolutely need.

2. You are probably going to be competing with crop consultants that have a ton of local and specific knowledge of crops, pests, fungus, irrigation ... they have experience to recognize all those possible issues for crop growing along with knowing good solutions. Your drone flights will probably get paid for from the same money the farmers would have used on an traditional crop consultant that would walk the fields. A farmer is also running a business, so any time they pay to bring in a consultant or outside help, that costs money, and if the information doesn't directly lead to costs savings at the end of the season, they probably aren't going to want to throw away money on things just because they are cool.

But I think there is an argument to be made for drones in agriculture for sure. Sentera and many others have built thriving businesses around that. You just need to show that the information and maps that a drone provides will save a farmer money. If they can spot-spray pesticides for instance, that costs them less, they get similar yields in the end, and bonus there are less pesticides going into the environment and our food supply. Drones are an important part of the larger precision agriculture revolution.

Farmers are making financial tradeoffs all season long ... if they see an issue in their fields, they are weighing the costs of treating it versus the potential lost yield. In some cases letting things go is the wiser financial decision (i.e. take an estimated 20% yield loss versus paying $x per acre to treat the issue.)

3. Sentera might be a good resource for a startup drone service business. They want to sell drones, cameras and analytical software, so I suspect they would be very helpful in showing prospective customers the best ways to use their equipment and how these tools can pay for themselves.

Full disclosure, I know some of the people that work at Sentera because it is a local [to me] company. I really like their company, I think they are doing some great things, and I pull for them every chance I get. (There are lots of other options out there too .... every company has strengths and weaknesses and sentera is no different in that respect.) I ended up taking a university job after treading water for a few years as an entrepreneur, so don't take business advice from me. But if you are just starting out, maybe think smallish, and part time (don't start out way in debt.) Build up experience, build up your fleet. Try to come up with a rate that is acceptable to farmers, but enables you to build your business. Maybe see if you can start out working for someone else just to get a year or three experience in the field.

Again, I don't know anything, I'm just talking here ... use what makes sense for you, just skip what doesn't. Go ahead and correct where I'm wrong, but it's too late for me anyway, save yourself. :) Best wishes! It's super exciting to just be starting out, I'm sure you have some great adventures ahead of you!

Curt.
Thank you so much for the advice. That was definitely something I needed to hear to put my ideas in perspective. All the research I have done has been reading positive articles about precision ag and not the realities and difficulties of it. It would be more of a part time gig because I’m going back to college when I’m out. Maybe just getting a part 107 and gaining experience in the field would better prepare me for success. Definitely don’t want to waste all the money I’ve spent saving on something that would turn out as a good investment!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Justcoz70
My wife's family are all farmers, and so far the drone idea hasn't caught on with them. Obviously the what your producing is a big factor. I have showed them how we can use the drones, but they are pretty much old school.
Thanks for the advise, finding ways to convince farmers is definitely a big obstacle.
 
I used to do environmental monitoring work just before drones became really popular, it would’ve been really easy for me to delve into using a drone for work had I stayed in that industry. Get some technical, survey, or engineering classes under your belt and you will have open doors for this in the near future. There are colleges is that specialize in programs using drones, and with the G.I. bill and your previous experience, you should be able to do really well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: R.Perry
I would think the ability to do construction monitoring, and energy infrastructure surveys and monitoring would pay higher and be more dependable than what you could get with agriculture. How was your business sense? Do you know how to run one? That is going to be the major hurdle if you don’t know how to do it. Cloldonus Has a really good recommendation, getting a job with a company in the industry you want to work for would be the best way to start out.

Here’s a job description from droners.io that perhaps you could use to do some background studying up with:

“This is for a 2 acre solar farm: The two arrays are installed right next to each other. One is a floating array and covers about .9 acres. The other is a ground mount and covers about 1.1 acres. Both arrays are fixed/non-tracking. The total module count is 2,302; system size is 478.82 kW. We would be looking to get visual images in .jpg and ther mal images preferred in .tiff (or possibly RJPG). There would be an initial and brief online training to assess and demonstrate data capture and specifications etc. XT or XT2 is required, but XT2 is recommended - One of our team members would likely meet you on site.

The data collection requires that solar radiance be measured, we would need a minimum of 600 w/m^2, so they would need a separate pyranometer as pointing the XT2's built-in towards the sun could damage it. Approved attire is safety vest, boots, hardhat, safety glasses.

PLEASE ONLY RESPOND IF YOU POSSESS XT OR XT2 - MUST BE WILLING TO PROCURE PYRANOMETER TO ASSESS RADIANCE”
You’re completely right, I was hoping I could find a way to make decent money in ag. However it’s becoming more clear to me that understanding how a project is completed from start to finish is something that I can’t just teach myself. I couldn’t understand much of that job description but I’m positive I would learn fast with someone teaching me. I’m glad I found this forum and how helpful it’s been!
 
I work part-time for a fertilizer company in MT. They bought a Matrice 200 w/ Sentera AGX710 Gimbaled Sensor & FieldAgent firmware. This will be used to educate the farmer (once I learn how to run it ?), in addition to our regular soil sampling.

Nobody at the company had flown the bird so I became Part 107 certified to be able to fly it. Unfortunately between the bad weather and working during the good weather I don't have much stick time yet but will be spending the winter hours learning the Sentera program.

Between the cost of the Matrice 200 w/ Sentera AGX710 Gimbaled Sensor & FieldAgent firmware, iPAD mini, SD cards, etc we surpassed your $10,000 cap. Sentera also has a monthly fee for using their software. Thankfully the expenditures aren't mine.

From my personal experiences and interactions with the people at Sentera they have excellent customer service.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kyle_lukow
I work part-time for a fertilizer company in MT. They bought a Matrice 200 w/ Sentera AGX710 Gimbaled Sensor & FieldAgent firmware. This will be used to educate the farmer (once I learn how to run it ?), in addition to our regular soil sampling.

Nobody at the company had flown the bird so I became Part 107 certified to be able to fly it. Unfortunately between the bad weather and working during the good weather I don't have much stick time yet but will be spending the winter hours learning the Sentera program.

Between the cost of the Matrice 200 w/ Sentera AGX710 Gimbaled Sensor & FieldAgent firmware, iPAD mini, SD cards, etc we surpassed your $10,000 cap. Sentera also has a monthly fee for using their software. Thankfully the expenditures aren't mine.

From my personal experiences and interactions with the people at Sentera they have excellent customer service.

Are you working with row crops or orchards, if row, what crops?
 
I highly suggest you take the time (or hire out) to research and build a thorough Business Plan before you buy your first piece of equipment. A well developed Business Plan will help you determine how to structure your business, teach you about your local market, teach you about your competition, help you create your initial pricing scheme, and also help you develop your Marketing Plan/Campaign.

A solid and thorough BP takes a while to develop but it's worth it's weight in GOLD if it's a well researched one. Our last one took almost 6 months to finish but it changed our business model, our pricing scheme, and it lead us to get into fields we hadn't even considered and it's paid off BIG time.

I also suggest taking some Small Business classes which can be done for cheap (or Free in many instances) at your local Community Colleges. Most state community colleges systems have a Small Business Center sector which are highly targeted at Start Ups and state funded. They provide resources, information, and guidance on how to get started. Just keep in mind they are they are there to help GUIDE you not set your business up and write your BP for you. That's the single complaint I hear from people after getting help from their CC SMC.... "They only told me what I needed to do... they didn't really HELP me much at all." Translates to: "They gave me guidance and expected me to do the work"

Being a small business owner means you'll need to be pilot, accountant, data processor, IT guru, marketing guru, door to door sales person, toilet cleaner and everything else that it takes to run a successful business. We wear a lot of hats and the roles are always changing and growing LOL! We are currently in our 7th year of doing this with sUAS.

Lastly I strongly suggest you to RESIST the urge to go out and buy everything shiny and new from the get to. The less you SPEND up front the easier it is to be profitable and get out of the RED. Yes it's great to have that shiny new vehicle branded to your company and all those new widgets and gadgets but it's really nice to turn a profit and have your business Debt Free in just a couple of months. It's a LOT easier to make $$ when you don't owe your soul to the bank/investment company. Try to Bootstrap the business and buy only what you MUST have to get started. Then as the business (aka cash flow) allows you can upgrade. Go slow with a plan and don't go overboard on the spending. PROVE the business and self finance.

Allen
 
I used to do environmental monitoring work just before drones became really popular, it would’ve been really easy for me to delve into using a drone for work had I stayed in that industry. Get some technical, survey, or engineering classes under your belt and you will have open doors for this in the near future. There are colleges is that specialize in programs using drones, and with the G.I. bill and your previous experience, you should be able to do really well.

I highly suggest you take the time (or hire out) to research and build a thorough Business Plan before you buy your first piece of equipment. A well developed Business Plan will help you determine how to structure your business, teach you about your local market, teach you about your competition, help you create your initial pricing scheme, and also help you develop your Marketing Plan/Campaign.

A solid and thorough BP takes a while to develop but it's worth it's weight in GOLD if it's a well researched one. Our last one took almost 6 months to finish but it changed our business model, our pricing scheme, and it lead us to get into fields we hadn't even considered and it's paid off BIG time.

I also suggest taking some Small Business classes which can be done for cheap (or Free in many instances) at your local Community Colleges. Most state community colleges systems have a Small Business Center sector which are highly targeted at Start Ups and state funded. They provide resources, information, and guidance on how to get started. Just keep in mind they are they are there to help GUIDE you not set your business up and write your BP for you. That's the single complaint I hear from people after getting help from their CC SMC.... "They only told me what I needed to do... they didn't really HELP me much at all." Translates to: "They gave me guidance and expected me to do the work"

Being a small business owner means you'll need to be pilot, accountant, data processor, IT guru, marketing guru, door to door sales person, toilet cleaner and everything else that it takes to run a successful business. We wear a lot of hats and the roles are always changing and growing LOL! We are currently in our 7th year of doing this with sUAS.

Lastly I strongly suggest you to RESIST the urge to go out and buy everything shiny and new from the get to. The less you SPEND up front the easier it is to be profitable and get out of the RED. Yes it's great to have that shiny new vehicle branded to your company and all those new widgets and gadgets but it's really nice to turn a profit and have your business Debt Free in just a couple of months. It's a LOT easier to make $$ when you don't owe your soul to the bank/investment company. Try to Bootstrap the business and buy only what you MUST have to get started. Then as the business (aka cash flow) allows you can upgrade. Go slow with a plan and don't go overboard on the spending. PROVE the business and self finance.

Allen
Thanks for the advice! I’ve been working on a business plan template from precision hawk that should get me to where I need to go. Right now I’m focusing on researching the best way to enter the market as a beginner. The best option I have found is the Mavic 2 pro. I have the money to invest because I’m coming off of a deployment and will be living at home and have time. My biggest problem is finding what area would be good to start ie agriculture, inspections, real estate photography, construction monitoring, mapping ect. I didn’t expect this much feedback and have learned more on this thread than days of googling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OFPMatt and BigAl07
Are you working with row crops or orchards, if row, what crops?
Honestly, we haven't started really working yet. I am the only one that has actually flown the Matrice, with very little stick time, and that was more to just get use to it. When we do it will be row crops. Corn and hemp will be the primary row crop focus. But what I have been told (and still need to learn) we will be able to fly hay fields and determine where there are nutrient deficiencies, ie the need for fertilizer. This information will be used to explain to the farmer the need for them to apply the necessary fertilizer for optimum crop production.

Unfortunately, currently the drone program is not a priority. Weather has put us behind schedule to complete prior commitments for fertilizer so when the weather is good to fly it is also when its good to spread.
 
Honestly, we haven't started really working yet. I am the only one that has actually flown the Matrice, with very little stick time, and that was more to just get use to it. When we do it will be row crops. Corn and hemp will be the primary row crop focus. But what I have been told (and still need to learn) we will be able to fly hay fields and determine where there are nutrient deficiencies, ie the need for fertilizer. This information will be used to explain to the farmer the need for them to apply the necessary fertilizer for optimum crop production.

Unfortunately, currently the drone program is not a priority. Weather has put us behind schedule to complete prior commitments for fertilizer so when the weather is good to fly it is also when its good to spread.

Ha! Has the tule fog hit yet? I went to Turkey Tech back when they called it that and man, that fog you guys get is depressing! I hope your flying season will not be short this winter.
 
Anyone who asks me about starting a business, I always recommend this book first...


It's one of the best single sources I know of for how to build a successful small business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
Honestly, we haven't started really working yet. I am the only one that has actually flown the Matrice, with very little stick time, and that was more to just get use to it. When we do it will be row crops. Corn and hemp will be the primary row crop focus. But what I have been told (and still need to learn) we will be able to fly hay fields and determine where there are nutrient deficiencies, ie the need for fertilizer. This information will be used to explain to the farmer the need for them to apply the necessary fertilizer for optimum crop production.

Unfortunately, currently the drone program is not a priority. Weather has put us behind schedule to complete prior commitments for fertilizer so when the weather is good to fly it is also when its good to spread.

I'm going to throw a little fun at you. If you are a fertilizer sales person, you know they need fertilizer or you wouldn't be able to make a living. Now the question is, what is needed in the fertilizer. Normally in the fall we look at the leaves coming off the grapevines and the Almond trees, based on the visual inspection you can make some close guesses. Best way is with soil analysis and you can't do that with a drone. Agreed orchards are much different that row crops and I think especially for corn the drone may be a excellent tool. Cows create great fertilizer, but the smell is terrible.
 
Whatever you do with the tools you choose you need to be able to interpret the assets.
if you go with crop analysis you need to be able to interpret and communicate to a agronomist what you found.
There is also fertilizer and pesticides application for smaller farms and orchard.
 
I'm going to throw a little fun at you. If you are a fertilizer sales person, you know they need fertilizer or you wouldn't be able to make a living. Now the question is, what is needed in the fertilizer. Normally in the fall we look at the leaves coming off the grapevines and the Almond trees, based on the visual inspection you can make some close guesses. Best way is with soil analysis and you can't do that with a drone. Agreed orchards are much different that row crops and I think especially for corn the drone may be a excellent tool. Cows create great fertilizer, but the smell is terrible.
Never hesitate to throw some fun - life is to short not to ?
Thankfully I'm not the sales person or owner of the company so I don't have to convince the farmer the need for the fertilizer. Currently soil tests are done on the fields. The drone will be done in conjunction with the soil tests.

The flights (again as I have been told) will also be able to identify invasive/noxious weeds and do crop plant counts.

Since winter has set in and we are shut down I will be using this time to learn the software so when next spring rolls around HOPEFULLY I will know how to do all the things the drone is capable of doing. I look forward to the challenge o_O
 
Here in the central valley of California we don't have winter as others do. I know a bit about fertilizers and pesticides, I flew crop dusters until I used up eight of my nine lives. Now I would love to turn the families Cessna 188 into a drone, but I don't think that is going to happen. Maybe if I talked to DJI.

I wish you the best of luck, and keep posting your experiences, I'm an old dog that love to learn new tricks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mavic Mac

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
4,291
Messages
37,658
Members
5,989
Latest member
AlanzFPV