What gets someone the good jobs
- Thread starter R.Perry
- Start date
I did aerial photography as a full time living for 30 years. It's just part-time now, however. I logged hundreds and hundreds of hours as a passenger/photographer in Cessna 172s and to a lesser degree in R22 helicopters. I didn't keep a log book of those hours and I wish I had, because I would like the information and would like to be able to have a better idea of the history of where I was and how much time I spent in particular areas, etc. However, no customer would have cared about my flying experience. I was and am a PHOTOGRAPHER. The aircraft was simply a PLATFORM. No customer every asked about my flying experience or cared whether I was a pilot or just the photographer. Occasionally, when discussing the possibility of using my services with a prospect I would be told that the boss owns an airplane, so they don't need my services. And I have seen the horrible photos produced by the boss with the airplane, but I never bothered pushing the issue with those types of prospects because they would eventually find out for themselves that a pilot plus a camera in no way guarantees good aerial photography, and I had plenty of other business.
Now that I also do aerial photography with a drone, I'm the pilot as well as the photographer, but being a pilot is incidental. It's simply a means to position the platform in the locations from where I want to record the images. I need to be a proficient pilot to be able to position the drone, as well as be a proficient driver in order to arrive safely at my locations, but the photography skills are what are the most important, and my customers could care less about how good of a "pilot" I am or how many hours I have logged or what kind of car I drive to the location and how much experience I have as a motorist.
If I were a marketing director at a hospital and I was considering using you to photograph our facility, what I would want from you is to show me some examples of some hospitals you have photographed. If you didn't have any images of hospitals, then of similar-sized facilities, so I could get an idea of the quality of the work you do. If instead you offered to show me your log book with your hundreds of hours of drone flying recorded, I would politely terminate the conversation and look for someone else, because I would see that if your emphasis is on "piloting," then you don't really understand that I'm looking for a photographer and good photographs. (As I mentioned previously, I have seen many poor photographs produced by excellent airplane pilots).
I have never been asked about my flying experience and my log books and don't expect that will ever happen. The type of customer I have and have had in the past is one that wants good images and they have little concern about the process.
I don't dispute that having a log book is a good thing, though that I don't have one does not mean I'm not "self respecting" or a bad pilot. What I dispute is so much emphasis on being a good "pilot" as if that is what the customer primarily wants and needs.
"I have never been asked about my flying experience and my log books and don't expect that will ever happen. The type of customer I have and have had in the past is one that wants good images and they have little concern about the process.
I don't dispute that having a log book is a good thing, though that I don't have one does not mean I'm not "self respecting" or a bad pilot. What I dispute is so much emphasis on being a good "pilot" as if that is what the customer primarily wants and needs. "
Respectfully, we'll agree to disagree. The very best reason for keeping a flight logbook is not to impress your customers. You are 100% correct; customers want to see the work product. Professional aviators keep log books for many reasons, primarily regulatory. Can we state categorically no regulations will ever be set in place for UAS logbooks. NO. Wouldn't we feel silly if we didn't have proof of experience then? Sort of hard to go back in time...
So long as there is no FPA (Federal Aerial Photography Administration) governing my pics, I am going to worry a lot more about the FAA 's desk weanies who sit around making up rules.
I am sure 10 years ago drone and RC flyers would have scoffed at an "FAA license to fly drones?" Yeah, sure. Nuts, right?
I will hereby make a prediction that within 10 years UAS pilots will be required logbooks.?
I don't dispute that having a log book is a good thing, though that I don't have one does not mean I'm not "self respecting" or a bad pilot. What I dispute is so much emphasis on being a good "pilot" as if that is what the customer primarily wants and needs. "
Respectfully, we'll agree to disagree. The very best reason for keeping a flight logbook is not to impress your customers. You are 100% correct; customers want to see the work product. Professional aviators keep log books for many reasons, primarily regulatory. Can we state categorically no regulations will ever be set in place for UAS logbooks. NO. Wouldn't we feel silly if we didn't have proof of experience then? Sort of hard to go back in time...
So long as there is no FPA (Federal Aerial Photography Administration) governing my pics, I am going to worry a lot more about the FAA 's desk weanies who sit around making up rules.
I am sure 10 years ago drone and RC flyers would have scoffed at an "FAA license to fly drones?" Yeah, sure. Nuts, right?
I will hereby make a prediction that within 10 years UAS pilots will be required logbooks.?
I said at least three times that I don't dispute that having a log book is a good thing and that I wish I had kept one. The OP asked me what I would do if a prospect wanted some kind of proof of my flying experience, which has never happened and I don't expect ever will happen. The "proof" they want is to see examples of my work. I have seen many examples of work done by aerial photographers who use drones both from internet searches and from websites linked in this forum, and I have yet to see any galleries of excellent aerial images. Emphasizing log books while taking crappy photos kind of misses the point, IMHO.
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The issue is who you are working for, and what they are looking for and concerned about. Prior to the UC job I now have they had someone else and that person crashed their drone. I don't know the details, but I guess it caused quite a stir
The college cared more about having a competent pilot than perfect photos. I can not say my photography is perfect or close to it, however my clients are very happy with what I produce.
What I have learned about photography has taught me that it is a never ending learning process, and having an artistic eye to be able to compose a great picture over a normal photograph is a talent not easily leaned. On the other hand the camera equipment we have today is so darn good that they can take beautiful pictures in the auto mode. Low light, and special effects is where the true photographer shines.
The courses I took were taught by Joe Sartore, a National Geographic photographer, as well as a couple others.
Personally my feeling is on this forum, and the subject of photography what is important is what can we learn from each other, and how can we improve what skills we have.
Us drone pilots should learn all we can from the professional photographers because it could mean getting or losing a job in the future. Just as professional photographers should learn all they can about drones, aviation, and how to use those tools to become more creative, and safe pilots.
2 cents worth.
Us drone pilots should learn all we can from the professional photographers because it could mean getting or losing a job in the future. Just as professional photographers should learn all they can about drones, aviation, and how to use those tools to become more creative, and safe pilots.
2 cents worth.
The above is becoming a standard with “deep pocket” entities employing drone operators. They require total actual 107 flight time, time with type, minimum total time hour requirements, minimum requirements for time with type, number of flights and hours previous 3, 6, and 12 months.
Where drones are concerned, a flight log might well be anything you want it to be as there have been questions whether or not Part 61 is applicable to Part 107 operators for several reasons. Whatever you have will have to satisfy corporate bean counters whose only mandate is to check off the boxes in their eligibility forms. They don’t have to understand it, what they see needs to provide the info they has be able to allow a determination. Just like resume’s, some logs will generate better responses than others. Accident rates, safety programs, and insurance companies are now controlling forces in qualifying applicants.
Something kind of important for those thinking they can make up a high time flight log; if you present big numbers to get in the door you better be able to fly like you have all that experience. You better be able to talk the talk as well as in all probability you’ll end up with an oral interview to pre-qualify followed by an in depth flight test to prove yourself before getting on boarded.
What you say, how it’s said, and how you fly will quickly establish what you are.
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Phaedrus
Well-Known Member
Marketing, website show what you're capable of doing, flexibility.
If you want to work for a company that has a drone department, at least 1 to 2 years, with at least 75 to 100+ hours. Log book to show your flights.
If you want to work for a company that has a drone department, at least 1 to 2 years, with at least 75 to 100+ hours. Log book to show your flights.
Yep. Having recently been subjected to flight logs and entry qual flight review, with another on the way, people are looking hard at this stuff.
There have been a lot of people that applied for jobs they weren’t anywhere close to being qualified for and crashed lots of equipment afterwards. I guess they figured having a 107 cert was all they needed to get the hob done. It wasn’t, and their actions have caused much tighter qualification standards. Talking the talk ain’t enough, ya gotta walk the walk, including precision flight after losing GPS.
Timing is PERFECT!! I was interviewing a perspective "Pilot/Operator" earlier today. As she was flying I mentioned, "Are you comfortable flying without GPS?" She said, "Yea that's no problem. I can handle that."
She was flying a Mavic Pro to demonstrate flying skills. I said, "Hover over that empty filed and let's put her in into SPORT mode and see what the wind is doing up there." Her response, "SPORT MODE? I've never flown in SPORT MODE. I'm getting ANXIETY with you just talking about that...."
Needless to say she didn't make the cut. She went from "talking the talk" to minutes later walking the walk home w/o a position on our team.
Funny you mention that. I haven’t flown anything DJI since 2013 or 14. First thing that happened during the initial flight qual process was I was handed a Mavic to start with. After a brief OS review it was time to fly. After about 2 minutes I was asking if that was the best it could do. Yep, Sport mode here we come. Then came a couple of Phantoms and and Inspire.
It was mentioned by several observers I became comfortable enough with each in just a couple minutes to execute tight quarters operations. Flight testing included nose in and out flight along with nose in spot landings in 10-12 gusty winds. No Phantom roll overs after numerous landings. There was one abort though, and they didn’t have to call the abort. We went though a lot of batteries...
BTW, the Mavic Pro is not maneuverable enough and the wait to land doesn’t cut it but the new version with the 1” sensor allows for enough adjustment to make it kind of nice. You can get used to it[emoji6]
Bottom line, they all fly pretty much the same and the different OS is prolly more difficult to get used to than how they fly. But the candidate has to know how to fly.
It was mentioned by several observers I became comfortable enough with each in just a couple minutes to execute tight quarters operations. Flight testing included nose in and out flight along with nose in spot landings in 10-12 gusty winds. No Phantom roll overs after numerous landings. There was one abort though, and they didn’t have to call the abort. We went though a lot of batteries...
BTW, the Mavic Pro is not maneuverable enough and the wait to land doesn’t cut it but the new version with the 1” sensor allows for enough adjustment to make it kind of nice. You can get used to it[emoji6]
Bottom line, they all fly pretty much the same and the different OS is prolly more difficult to get used to than how they fly. But the candidate has to know how to fly.
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm more nervous when the computer is flying, mapping, or litchi programmed flights. I do my panos manually, I fly both my phantom 4 and the Inspire in all modes to keep my edge.
When I was given my test flight we were doing a pano, drone was about six hundred feet away and the guy checking me out unplugged the tablet, that will get your attention. I guess he wanted to see if this old guys eyesight was still ok, and it is still 20/20 uncorrected.
What I would look for in someone is smoothness and situational awareness. It is so easy to just focus on the tablet and not keep a visual on the drone. I've noticed in myself I started developing that habit.
I think it is imperative that a drone pilot have good vision.
When I was given my test flight we were doing a pano, drone was about six hundred feet away and the guy checking me out unplugged the tablet, that will get your attention. I guess he wanted to see if this old guys eyesight was still ok, and it is still 20/20 uncorrected.
What I would look for in someone is smoothness and situational awareness. It is so easy to just focus on the tablet and not keep a visual on the drone. I've noticed in myself I started developing that habit.
I think it is imperative that a drone pilot have good vision.
I've noticed that the last few applicants we've had for our county Dept are just the opposite. The moment the sUAS is 10' in the air their faces are buried in the tablet as if they were merely playing a video game as opposed to operating a live sUAS in the NAS. This is a major Pet Peeve for me.
I understand that, but our purpose is to take pictures, you can't take pictures staring at the drone, and that is why we are suppose to have an observer, but most don't. The reality is you have a better idea of what the drone is doing if you are watching the monitor. Now when auto is flying and I'm shooting a video, I have a observer because there is no way to shoot the video and watch the drone at the same time.
I know the RC folks are use to watching their aircraft, helo and fixed wing pilots are use to aircraft point of view.
Sorry I have to disagree. @R.Perry. You're objective as a pilot is to observe your aircraft (drone) not what's on the monitor. Every once in a while you do have to glance at monitor.
As a private pilot since 1975, you as a pilot are to be viewing outside the cockpit for other aircrafts and yes you do need to monitor your gauges but not staring at them constantly. Only time, IFR. I think you know this.
You do not need an observer to take pictures, it's all about flying smart and safe.
Safe is not looking at your monitor more than the drone.
It's very easy to look back and forth drone to monitor.
BTW, 67y20 AH-1G also flew front seat.
As a private pilot since 1975, you as a pilot are to be viewing outside the cockpit for other aircrafts and yes you do need to monitor your gauges but not staring at them constantly. Only time, IFR. I think you know this.
You do not need an observer to take pictures, it's all about flying smart and safe.
Safe is not looking at your monitor more than the drone.
It's very easy to look back and forth drone to monitor.
BTW, 67y20 AH-1G also flew front seat.
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