Air Map loses LAANC?

Fred Garvin · Oct 27, 2021

@BigAl07 They're just free LAANC for me. I don't pay them anything or use any of their other services. It's simply an easy LAANC system for the relatively infrequent need when I'm flying somewhere I don't already have a CoA for.

Fred Garvin · Oct 27, 2021

CentralVAphoto said:
Saw that and their explanation. Not sure why they weren't more proactive, but it was too little, too late for me. Moved on to Aloft - just have to see how that goes for awhile.

I did as well, but Aloft doesn't yet have a free web interface. It's coming, so they tell me, but only for paid Enterprise levels. It was fine, using the App for the past few weeks, but it was outside my workflow. I like to do all my planning the day/night before or more, and I work from my laptop rather than my phone. Sure, I can use the phone, but it's easier for me to use the workflow I've been using and am familiar with. I could bounce around from app to app, website, email, app again....but I have everything bookmarked in Safari and accounts already setup with my info and equipment...so it's a really quick and simple matter. Taking one step out, like having to use Aloft app for a month...just put a wrench into it.

Nice to have the flow moving again.

Dave Pitman · Oct 27, 2021

BigAl07 said:
Does this not leave a sour taste in your mouth for them? Regardless if their interface is prettier and seems to work better you're literally supporting an organization who wants to cost you $$ going forward.

Allen, over the years, I have reported that Airmap inside scoop stuff, and actually, most folks just don't seem to care. Feeding the bear that ultimately wants to eat them. But hey, they have "a great interface that sometimes works really nice". I don't get it either.

No offense to those that support AirMap. But really, you should think about what you're doing, IMHO.

R Martin · Nov 1, 2021

Dave Pitman said:
Allen, over the years, I have reported that Airmap inside scoop stuff, and actually, most folks just don't seem to care. Feeding the bear that ultimately wants to eat them. But hey, they have "a great interface that sometimes works really nice". I don't get it either.

No offense to those that support AirMap. But really, you should think about what you're doing, IMHO.

I know there are people that operate over a really big area and my approach (in their case) is impractical but I still cling to my COA and renew them when they get close to expiration. Thirty minutes for all the paperwork on three COAs and then forget them until 24 months later is still the easiest way to go about it for me. As far the the new legislation goes, I'm sure it benefits Amazon and UPS and a few other megacorporations but it doesn't do jack shiite for me except add more complexity and cost to my program. Neither of my aircraft will make the cut and I'm just counting the days until I can't fly them anymore and UTM takes hold. I think at that point I am going to pass the torch and light the bonfire with it.

Dave Pitman · Nov 1, 2021

R Martin said:
I know there are people that operate over a really big area and my approach (in their case) is impractical but I still cling to my COA and renew them when they get close to expiration. Thirty minutes for all the paperwork on three COAs and then forget them until 24 months later is still the easiest way to go about it for me. As far the the new legislation goes, I'm sure it benefits Amazon and UPS and a few other megacorporations but it doesn't do jack shiite for me except add more complexity and cost to my program. Neither of my aircraft will make the cut and I'm just counting the days until I can't fly them anymore and UTM takes hold. I think at that point I am going to pass the torch and light the bonfire with it.

I prefer CoAs as well. But, I've acutally had CoAs revoked when LAANC became available for the airport and they were unwilling to grant one thereafter. So, if you're able to get CoAs at airports with active LAANC, It's definitely an airport by airport decision. I have had no problems getting CoAs at airports that still do not participate in LAANC. Ironically, they are military controlled. You would think they are as "Federal" as they come.

Fred Garvin · Nov 1, 2021

R Martin said:
...I still cling to my COA and renew them when they get close to expiration. Thirty minutes for all the paperwork on three COAs and then forget them until 24 months later...

I've got 12 of them to manage with renewals coming up in May. (June Expiry) I have to deal with LAANC for DFW and Alliance though. Thankfully its not that often, maybe 3-5 times a month. Everything else often falls into a CoA or is Class G.

JimD · Nov 2, 2021

Fred Garvin said:
I did as well, but Aloft doesn't yet have a free web interface. It's coming, so they tell me, but only for paid Enterprise levels. It was fine, using the App for the past few weeks, but it was outside my workflow. I like to do all my planning the day/night before or more, and I work from my laptop rather than my phone. Sure, I can use the phone, but it's easier for me to use the workflow I've been using and am familiar with. I could bounce around from app to app, website, email, app again....but I have everything bookmarked in Safari and accounts already setup with my info and equipment...so it's a really quick and simple matter. Taking one step out, like having to use Aloft app for a month...just put a wrench into it.

Nice to have the flow moving again.

Not only that, but if you need to get a DJI unlock, much easier from the desktop.
Again, the Airmap thing was most likely one dude brilliant idea, that totally failed.
Find something better free or cheap and I will use.

R Martin · Nov 2, 2021

Dave Pitman said:
I prefer CoAs as well. But, I've acutally had CoAs revoked when LAANC became available for the airport and they were unwilling to grant one thereafter. So, if you're able to get CoAs at airports with active LAANC, It's definitely an airport by airport decision. I have had no problems getting CoAs at airports that still do not participate in LAANC. Ironically, they are military controlled. You would think they are as "Federal" as they come.

I haven't hit that problem yet. Dallas Executive and Denton both still haven't required me to switch. The rest that I fly falls under Class G with a few private air patches.

R Martin · Nov 2, 2021

Fred Garvin said:
I've got 12 of them to manage with renewals coming up in May. (June Expiry) I have to deal with LAANC for DFW and Alliance though. Thankfully its not that often, maybe 3-5 times a month. Everything else often falls into a CoA or is Class G.

Never had to fly at either of them thankfully. I'll stick to Denton and Frisco.

Fred Garvin · Nov 2, 2021

R Martin said:
Never had to fly at either of them thankfully. I'll stick to Denton and Frisco.

They're both easy and quick. Never had a request denied or take more than a minute to get the approval text.

adm_geomatics · Nov 18, 2021

BigAl07 said:
I'd genuinely like to know how you guys can support AirCrap after the things they have openly done to restrict our access and then attempt to charge us for said access.

Does this not leave a sour taste in your mouth for them? Regardless if their interface is prettier and seems to work better you're literally supporting an organization who wants to cost you $$ going forward.

Spend a few minutes reading this threadand pay special attention to Post #45

I look forward to hearing what you'll think after reading the thread

Allen

Holy cow, what did they do to you? I have been using AirMap for at least 3 years without paying them a dime and this was the first real problem I ever saw. Maybe I'm not seeing something...

BigAl07 · Nov 18, 2021

chasco said:
Holy cow, what did they do to you? I have been using AirMap for at least 3 years without paying them a dime and this was the first real problem I ever saw. Maybe I'm not seeing something...

AirCrap has been very ACTIVE in the process of taking our Airspace away from us and then SELLING it back to us. There are several links citing exactly what AirCrap has been doing for a good while now.

They see us and our Airspace as a Cash Cow and they actively worked to take control over it and then charge us a FEE to be able to use our airspace.

Airmap no longer on FAA Approved LAANC UAS Service Suppliers list

https://dronexl.co/2021/09/14/airmap-approved-laanc-uas-service-suppliers/?fbclid=IwAR3xQFJBj1PN6qCjxG9qVMBkmJI49GXjCVBDm8mVu3UYnkqsRcbBCh1ieJY

mavicpilots.com

JimD · Nov 18, 2021

BigAl07 said:
AirCrap has been very ACTIVE in the process of taking our Airspace away from us and then SELLING it back to us. There are several links citing exactly what AirCrap has been doing for a good while now.

They see us and our Airspace as a Cash Cow and they actively worked to take control over it and then charge us a FEE to be able to use our airspace.

Airmap no longer on FAA Approved LAANC UAS Service Suppliers list

https://dronexl.co/2021/09/14/airmap-approved-laanc-uas-service-suppliers/?fbclid=IwAR3xQFJBj1PN6qCjxG9qVMBkmJI49GXjCVBDm8mVu3UYnkqsRcbBCh1ieJY

mavicpilots.com

I think that the statement "very ACTIVE" is a mischaracterization of their actions. I can not see anywhere that is was suggested THEY would collect the fees. It as more in connection with UTM.

One one time they did suggest the various government bodies could get fees to underwrite certain aspects of regulation. But this was intended for UTM operations i.e. drone delivery and the like that involve BVLOS. Of course no one thinks that drone operators like us should pay these sort of fees, when companies like Amazon start using the airspace for their commerce, it does make sense that there would be fees somewhere along the line\ to underwrite the regulation of such activities. Airports do charge takeoff and landing fees because they have to pay for equipment and ATCs, and in the event of things like drone deliveries there will need to be some sort over over watch.

So I think this is somewhat of a misunderstanding and over reaction as to their intentions.

Dave Pitman · Nov 18, 2021

JimD said:
So I think this is somewhat of a misunderstanding and over reaction as to their intentions.

You must be new to the game, Welcome !

AirMap's entire existence is a venture capitol campaign involving heavy lobby at all levels of government. The original business plan of AirMap depends upon a fractured and highly fragmented airspace system across the country. They would provide a platform in order to allow state and local agencies, and even private citizens, to control their own airspace and have AirMap act as the middleman for uas operators to navigate (i.e. pay) to gain access to this new, complicated patchwork of regulations. That was early on.

When it became clear that the FAA was going to have none of it, then AirMap pivoted focus to the new hints about RID and UTM. They saw this as the perfect chance to salvage their business plan. They turned their lobbyists toward the network portion of RID and an acceleration into UTM. When the FAA got an earful on especially the network portion of RID and settled for a broadcast solution, AirMap started to disintegrate as their business plan was handed yet another setback.

Their airspace app and later LAANC incorporation, is not the focus of AirMap. It is only to get the marketplace used to their presence. And being a LAANC provider helps to both add legitimacy to their platform as well as maintain some relationship with the FAA. But, make no mistake. Their goal is to help foster an operational environment in which they can charge uas operators at scale. I'm sure that is exactly what they used in their pitch at VC presentations.

So, if you love the AirMap platfrom, that is your right. But do know that you are supporting, even if you don't pay, a company that exists for the sole purpose of someday making you pay for access that you now get for free. It's not that AirMap is evil. They are simply a company trying to exploit a market. But the market has to have a certain slant for the plan to make money, So they are actively trying to push it in that direction. The opposite direction from the interests of commercial, especially small, UAS operations.

BigAl07 · Nov 20, 2021

JimD said:
I think that the statement "very ACTIVE" is a mischaracterization of their actions. I can not see anywhere that is was suggested THEY would collect the fees. It as more in connection with UTM.

One one time they did suggest the various government bodies could get fees to underwrite certain aspects of regulation. But this was intended for UTM operations i.e. drone delivery and the like that involve BVLOS. Of course no one thinks that drone operators like us should pay these sort of fees, when companies like Amazon start using the airspace for their commerce, it does make sense that there would be fees somewhere along the line\ to underwrite the regulation of such activities. Airports do charge takeoff and landing fees because they have to pay for equipment and ATCs, and in the event of things like drone deliveries there will need to be some sort over over watch.

So I think this is somewhat of a misunderstanding and over reaction as to their intentions.

JimD, with all due respect that's your opinion and you're wrong! Very wrong indeed. Do some research on AirCrap and you'll see for yourself their devious actions.

@Vic Moss may weigh in here as he is very familiar with this topic and has spoken out about it many times on our forums (More on Mavic IIRC).

adm_geomatics · Nov 24, 2021

BigAl07 said:
JimD, with all due respect that's your opinion and you're wrong! Very wrong indeed. Do some research on AirCrap and you'll see for yourself their devious actions.

@Vic Moss may weigh in here as he is very familiar with this topic and has spoken out about it many times on our forums (More on Mavic IIRC).

I have read many articles recently and have to agree. I feel bad for even having their app on my iPad now... so it's gone. I also opted out of their beta program and am cutting all ties with Hangar. I already knew that bunch was shady but this just confirms it.