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As if police drones didn't get enough bad PR

LUIS MARTINEZ

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I've been retired for 7 years. Did they stop making PA systems for squad cars???? Did we not promise city councils and citizens we would not spy on them with our police drones? How quickly we forget.
 
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I've been retired for 7 years. Did they stop making PA systems for squad cars???? Did we not promise city councils and citizens we would not spy on them with our police drones? How quickly we forget.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures (hopefully after thinking through the problem).
 
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Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures (hopefully after thinking through the problem).
Agreed.
Is an M2ED with a tiny speaker going to be more effective than a squad car PA? Color me skeptical. As you know I'm a fan of public safety UAS use, but citizens are paranoid enough, we don't need to contribute to that.
 
Agreed.
Is an M2ED with a tiny speaker going to be more effective than a squad car PA? Color me skeptical. As you know I'm a fan of public safety UAS use, but citizens are paranoid enough, we don't need to contribute to that.

This is just part of the norm. Some desk pilot thought "what a great idea" and shoved it through without actually becoming informed about the issue. The boots on the ground get the steaming pile without a stick and are instructed to make it work. Add to that the fear-driven state everyone is in and you have the perfect mix.
If they don't have enough boots on the ground, they just got National Guard troops. Put them to use. Certainly not a popular solution as far as PR goes but it does work.
 
This is just part of the norm. Some desk pilot thought "what a great idea" and shoved it through without actually becoming informed about the issue. The boots on the ground get the steaming pile without a stick and are instructed to make it work. Add to that the fear-driven state everyone is in and you have the perfect mix.
If they don't have enough boots on the ground, they just got National Guard troops. Put them to use. Certainly not a popular solution as far as PR goes but it does work.
Chula Vista PD has been very successful and innovative (and received lots of media coverage) with their UAS program. Unfortunately, when you start thinking the only tool is a hammer every problem is a nail.
We saw the same thing in the 70s and 80s with SWAT teams until saner minds prevailed. I inherited a dept. where they were deploying SWAT for misdemeanor warrants and throwing flash bangs at the drop of a hat. Of course, as chief I had to deal with the aftermath. Things changed overnight.

I just hate to see public safety UAS getting a bad rap.
 
Chula Vista PD has been very successful and innovative (and received lots of media coverage) with their UAS program. Unfortunately, when you start thinking the only tool is a hammer every problem is a nail.
We saw the same thing in the 70s and 80s with SWAT teams until saner minds prevailed. I inherited a dept. where they were deploying SWAT for misdemeanor warrants and throwing flash bangs at the drop of a hat. Of course, as chief I had to deal with the aftermath. Things changed overnight.

I just hate to see public safety UAS getting a bad rap.

All the more reason to have trained professionals operating the aircraft who know the rules and regs (and in this case the local laws too) who have the ability and knowledge base to make an informed call on each flight. If it doesn't feel right don't do it. We, as pilots, have that obligation, responsibility, and right to call the flight off if things are right. It sounds like that came from a soap box but we have all had to step in at some point and come up with an alternate plan or scrub a flight.
 
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What I got from the article was their major concern was keeping their personnel from having direct contact with the people. Too easy for people to flag down a black & white and want to engage in conversation.
 
This is just part of the norm. Some desk pilot thought "what a great idea" and shoved it through without actually becoming informed about the issue. The boots on the ground get the steaming pile without a stick and are instructed to make it work. Add to that the fear-driven state everyone is in and you have the perfect mix.
If they don't have enough boots on the ground, they just got National Guard troops. Put them to use. Certainly not a popular solution as far as PR goes but it does work.
I beg to differ, this is not the "NORM" and until announced suspensions of civil liberties there still exist a level of privacy. Now I will say that we don't know how the drone is being deployed and the flight pattern, but we know that there is a good margin of the public that are concerned about drone usages and its ability to fly close to the public (spying). Patrol units can be used as in "NORMAL" times with loud speakers, but what we are really talking about here is people & businesses allowing gatherings to occur. A drone cannot issue out citations, so a unit would need to be deployed anyway to do any enforcement. Drones are best used for known situations to assist & monitor ground units, this use of patrolling will just add to the fears of the public.
 
I beg to differ, this is not the "NORM" and until announced suspensions of civil liberties there still exist a level of privacy. Now I will say that we don't know how the drone is being deployed and the flight pattern, but we know that there is a good margin of the public that are concerned about drone usages and its ability to fly close to the public (spying). Patrol units can be used as in "NORMAL" times with loud speakers, but what we are really talking about here is people & businesses allowing gatherings to occur. A drone cannot issue out citations, so a unit would need to be deployed anyway to do any enforcement. Drones are best used for known situations to assist & monitor ground units, this use of patrolling will just add to the fears of the public.

Until we enter marshal law this is a moot point. Officers still have to obey the law and the regs according to their COA or certificate. So what exactly is your point here? What if scenarios don't cut it.
 
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My point, just like Mr. Martinez speaking from experience in dealing with the public from a law enforcement position. Chula Vista has been on the forefront of UAS usage, but sometimes you need to think things through and put yourself in the position of the public.
 
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Apparently other departments aren't getting the clue...

Given the knucklehead comments on the article I can only see this as being a tool to escalate already tense situations. Last thing we need is civilians attacking police drones with predictable outcomes to make our civil operations even more attention getting and confrontational with the general public.

 
Apparently other departments aren't getting the clue...

Given the knucklehead comments on the article I can only see this as being a tool to escalate already tense situations. Last thing we need is civilians attacking police drones with predictable outcomes to make our civil operations even more attention getting and confrontational with the general public.

Interesting how the reaction from police officers in a UAS Facebook page I visit is diametrically opposed to the one I see here. Their position is pretty much "if you got it use it." They fail to see the issue of public perception and drones. Of course, they are line and not staff.
 
Interesting how the reaction from police officers in a UAS Facebook page I visit is diametrically opposed to the one I see here. Their position is pretty much "if you got it use it." They fail to see the issue of public perception and drones. Of course, they are line and not staff.

The reality of the situation is a lot more clear where the boots meet to pavement. Why should officers risk their safety when it is not necessary? This is just an example of common sense and innovation meeting. If people are all that fearful, then frickin stay at home like you were told....we are adults (mostly) after all and simple instructions should simply be followed.
 
The reality of the situation is a lot more clear where the boots meet to pavement. Why should officers risk their safety when it is not necessary? This is just an example of common sense and innovation meeting. If people are all that fearful, then frickin stay at home like you were told....we are adults (mostly) after all and simple instructions should simply be followed.
The reality of the situation is a lot more clear where the boots meet to pavement. Why should officers risk their safety when it is not necessary? This is just an example of common sense and innovation meeting. If people are all that fearful, then frickin stay at home like you were told....we are adults (mostly) after all and simple instructions should simply be followed.
Agreed, mostly. How close is that Mavic pilot ? Standing around the corner? Unless they are ignoring the rules...
Police cars have PA systems. Some of us spent a lot of time in front of city councils reassuring citizens drones would never be used to watch them. This crisis will pass and those communities with drones overhead barking orders will remember.

I introduced UAS to two public agencies and am not a Luddite. PDs have K9s and SWAT; why not use them to break up the crowds? IMHO it is not the right tool.
 
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Agreed, mostly. How close is that Mavic pilot ? Standing around the corner? Unless they are ignoring the rules...
Police cars have PA systems. Some of us spent a lot of time in front of city councils reassuring citizens drones would never be used to watch them. This crisis will pass and those communities with drones overhead barking orders will remember.

I introduced UAS to two public agencies and am not a Luddite. PDs have K9s and SWAT; why not use them to break up the crowds? IMHO it is not the right tool.

I get what you are saying. But even using SWAT (which would be viewed as overkill) you are still placing a public servant in harm's way when it is unnecessary. If you are going to use a SWAT team then you might as well bring a few cases of nylon ties along and arrest them all. What would the public's perception be then?

At least with a UAS you are issuing a reminder for the public to isolate themselves from each other and giving them another chance to do the right thing before escalating the situation. If they can't appreciate that, the alternatives are even less pleasant. I lived through martial law in Memphis back in 1978 when people lost their minds three times while I was in my A school in the military. People just don't get how bad it can actually get..... until they turn a bunch of 18-20 year olds with automatic weapons and the authority to use them loose on your city streets.
 
I get what you are saying. But even using SWAT (which would be viewed as overkill) you are still placing a public servant in harm's way when it is unnecessary. If you are going to use a SWAT team then you might as well bring a few cases of nylon ties along and arrest them all. What would the public's perception be then?

At least with a UAS you are issuing a reminder for the public to isolate themselves from each other and giving them another chance to do the right thing before escalating the situation. If they can't appreciate that, the alternatives are even less pleasant. I lived through martial law in Memphis back in 1978 when people lost their minds three times while I was in my A school in the military. People just don't get how bad it can actually get..... until they turn a bunch of 18-20 year olds with automatic weapons and the authority to use them loose on your city streets.
The SWAT and K9 remark was sarcasm.... :D
 
The reality of the situation is a lot more clear where the boots meet to pavement. Why should officers risk their safety when it is not necessary? This is just an example of common sense and innovation meeting. If people are all that fearful, then frickin stay at home like you were told....we are adults (mostly) after all and simple instructions should simply be followed.

So was the adults comment I made earlier...
 

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