Ask a sUAS Thermographer

[Sej108]

Good for you.

I have no personal experience with the Boson as this is their new, smaller platform. As for the lens, this will certainly depend on your type of work. If you could give me some detail I could guide you better.

I work full time as an environmental consultant and can see a number of possible uses for this. Potentially building inspections, pipeline inspections, electrical utilities, solar panel inspection, etc. We also recently acquired a multispectral camera that will be used on corn and soybean fields this spring. I would like to see if there are any applications with thermal in this area also. There is probably not a 1 size fits all unit, but any input would be appreciated. thanks

 

[Outta Control]

I work full time as an environmental consultant and can see a number of possible uses for this. Potentially building inspections, pipeline inspections, electrical utilities, solar panel inspection, etc. We also recently acquired a multispectral camera that will be used on corn and soybean fields this spring. I would like to see if there are any applications with thermal in this area also. There is probably not a 1 size fits all unit, but any input would be appreciated. thanks

First off that is a very diverse target market and especially for thermal use. As I advise my students to always reduce yourself from being a "jack of all trades" I think you fall into this. Based on your current use I feel that staying on a qualitative side of of the reporting world would benefit you best.

I would recommend looking at a 13mm for your 336. Not only is it in the middle of the road for lens choice, but it is flexible enough to gain experience behind the lens at different targets.

 

[Sej108]

First off that is a very diverse target market and especially for thermal use. As I advise my students to always reduce yourself from being a "jack of all trades" I think you fall into this. Based on your current use I feel that staying on a qualitative side of of the reporting world would benefit you best.

I would recommend looking at a 13mm for your 336. Not only is it in the middle of the road for lens choice, but it is flexible enough to gain experience behind the lens at different targets.

Unfortunately and fortunately, my job does take me into a number of industries but I get where you're coming from. Thanks for quick response and all the input. I'll post some stuff after I get some experience under my belt.

 

[breid1]

Dear sir,
I just recently realized that there was this great forum to learn from! I work for a medium size municipal power system in Ohio. It has taken me almost a year to convince the city fathers of the benefits of a sUAS. We now have a sUAS policy in force for the city, so now we will be able to start operations soon. We'll do photo, video archiving plus thermal work for the power system's assets (lines, transformers, switches, substations, etc.). In my research, I have come across really only one product, the Zenmuse XT V2.0 640 @ 30 Hz/19mm/Radiometric. In your opinion, is this what I'm looking for? We do have the Inspire 1. Thank you for your comments in advance!!

 

[Outta Control]

Hello breid1,

Thank you for your inquiry and I commend you for your work in the development of a UAS program for your city. I know the challenges and red tape in dealing with the city.

To address your inquiry, I agree with your choice of camera/lens combo for the type of work and your potential future requirement by your supervisor. As such, I would highly recommend to rely the values on the XT Pro App as Apparent Temperature and not Absolute. I also recommend to get certified under an sUAS Thermography course from ITC because I expect in the near future someone in the city will be asking for a component’s temperature.

 

[breid1]

Hello breid1,

Thank you for your inquiry and I commend you for your work in the development of a UAS program for your city. I know the challenges and red tape in dealing with the city.

To address your inquiry, I agree with your choice of camera/lens combo for the type of work and your potential future requirement by your supervisor. As such, I would highly recommend to rely the values on the XT Pro App as Apparent Temperature and not Absolute. I also recommend to get certified under an sUAS Thermography course from ITC because I expect in the near future someone in the city will be asking for a component’s temperature.

That's cool! How do I find out about the certification (cost, location, etc.)? Thanks!

 

[breid1]

That's cool! How do I find out about the certification (cost, location, etc.)? Thanks!

I think I found it! It looks to be around $1995 for a 4 day course, correct?

 

[breid1]

Hello breid1,

Thank you for your inquiry and I commend you for your work in the development of a UAS program for your city. I know the challenges and red tape in dealing with the city.

To address your inquiry, I agree with your choice of camera/lens combo for the type of work and your potential future requirement by your supervisor. As such, I would highly recommend to rely the values on the XT Pro App as Apparent Temperature and not Absolute. I also recommend to get certified under an sUAS Thermography course from ITC because I expect in the near future someone in the city will be asking for a component’s temperature.

One more question, can a person go straight to the sUAS Level 1 Thermography class or do you have to start with Level 1 Thermography?

 

[Outta Control]

One more question, can a person go straight to the sUAS Level 1 Thermography class or do you have to start with Level 1 Thermography?

No, you can go straight to sUAS Thermography Course.

 

[Outta Control]

I think I found it! It looks to be around $1995 for a 4 day course, correct?

Yes

 

[Randall Warnas]

What is the procedure to get certified for thermo?

Hey! I am trying to make checking in on this forum a regular thing. Certification requires attending a week-long course where you are trained by a Level III Thermographer. FLIR owns the Infrared Training Center which is probably the best route to get this done. They have sUAS driven courses that will make the information a little more relevant to aerial applications. Here is a link: Infrared Training Center

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

That's a loaded question. The industry commonly recognizes three Levels of training in Thermography. I've run into the word "certified" for my entire professional career as a cop and a criminal justice professor, and this word is used and abused regularly. When someone told me they were certified to do something I followed with; by whom? A government agency, private company? are there written standards? Etc. ITC uses the word to refer to individual completing their course AND the post course field assignment. Finishing the course requires a written exam in the classroom and a field assignment later.

In that instant, you are"certified " by ITC, and according to them, you have met requirements outlined by ANSI/ASNT CP-105 and CP-189 of the American Society for Non-Destructive Testing. So ITC (BTW, there are other companies offering IR training) certifies you met ASNDT standards. I am not aware ASNDT issues any Thermography certification. They are just an industry group.

I took the ITC Level 1 at $2k per 4 days. It was expensive but a good intro to IR and IMHO necessary for anyone before attempting to use an IR sensor for commercial purposes.

Level 1 is just like my old CFI told me when I got my private pilot license way back in 1970, you now have a license to learn kid, don't forget it. Level 1 is just the very basics. ITC also offers a Level 1 sUAS course. I'm sure Outta Control can tell u more about that.

To the best of my knowledge (USA) there is no federal government certification to be a Level 1,2,3 Thermographer. There may be state regulations, though. This is my extent of thermography "certification" knowledge. I'm sure others will jump in here.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

That's a loaded question. The industry commonly recognizes three Levels of training in Thermography. I've run into the word "certified" for my entire professional career as a cop and a criminal justice professor, and this word is used and abused regularly. When someone told me they were certified to do something I followed with; by whom? A government agency, private company? are there written standards? Etc. ITC uses the word to refer to individual completing their course AND the post course field assignment. Finishing the course requires a written exam in the classroom and a field assignment later.

In that instant, you are"certified " by ITC, and according to them, you have met requirements outlined by ANSI/ASNT CP-105 and CP-189 of the American Society for Non-Destructive Testing. So ITC (BTW, there are other companies offering IR training) certifies you met ASNDT standards. I am not aware ASNDT issues any Thermography certification. They are just an industry group.

I took the ITC Level 1 at $2k per 4 days. It was expensive but a good intro to IR and IMHO necessary for anyone before attempting to use an IR sensor for commercial purposes.

Level 1 is just like my old CFI told me when I got my private pilot license way back in 1970, you now have a license to learn kid, don't forget it. Level 1 is just the very basics. ITC also offers a Level 1 sUAS course. I'm sure Outta Control can tell u more about that.

To the best of my knowledge (USA) there is no federal government certification to be a Level 1,2,3 Thermographer. There may be state regulations, though. This is my extent of thermography "certification" knowledge. I'm sure others will jump in here.

If you don't have an official degree just by taking these courses in a recognised organisation, you can do something for yourself. Otherwise you have nothing. I've been looking here in Spain and let's say the only ones are those that ITC also gives. Other sites also offer courses but with ITC. From what I have been looking at it seems that ITC has become the standard.

In your case, if you use thermography in your work and want that data to be evidential, you have to show in some way that you have the necessary knowledge to prove that you are capable of obtaining this data in a reliable way. That's what this is all about, isn't it?

I understand that 3 levels are very expensive, for me it is very expensive. At least for now. You'd have to get a few customers who occasionally ask for accredited thermographed flights to make it worth investing so much money. Time will tell

 

[Outta Control]

I agreed that the word "certified" can ans has been used loosely in some industries but in similar fashion there have been some cases of confusion where L1 Thermographers are considered to be certified like a L1 sUAS Thermographer.

If this was accurate, then why is there no L2 or L3 sUAS Thermography course.
Why do L1 Thermographers must take the L1 sUAS Thermographers just to be certified as a sUAS.

I can relate this issue since I am also nationally certified as a motorcycle instructor for over 25 years. This means I can go to any state in the US under the MSF, Idaho STAR, TCT, and Oregon STAR state recognized training curriculum and teach new riders.

For a motorcycle training program/organization to be accepted as a state run program takes about the same process, scrutiny as to what FLIR experienced to get their certification training to be globally accepted.

Again I am not debating that L1 Thermographers can not conduct thermography from a sUAS, I am just saying that there some differences between the two.

 

[ArrUnTuS]

Official means it is recognized by the government. If it does not exist, as seems to be the case, then it seems that ITC has created the basis and that it is recognized........ worldwide?

Then I understand it's the best option. I don't know, I speak from ignorance.

 

[Outta Control]

I will say this, within the first 2 hours of the first day of the ITC sUAS course, our instructor made it very clear about the certification's structure, validity, and differences from similar courses.

Again 2 hours.

Honestly I was impressed and surprised that we spent this much time and detail on this specific class. Some just looked at it as a disclaimer, while some like me, can understand on the complexity and the confusion it would create in the industry, and look at this as a steadfast policy.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

I agreed but when it comes to a much narrower definition there have been some cases of confusion where L1 Thermographers are certified as to L1 sUAS Thermographer.

If this was not accurate, then why is there no L2 or L3 sUAS Thermographers. Why do L1 Thermographers must take the L1 sUAS Thermographers just to be certified as a sUAS.

I can relate this issue since I am also nationally certified as a motorcycle instructor for over 25 years. This means I can go to any state in the US under the MSF, Idaho STAR, TCT, and Oregon STAR state recognized training curriculum and teach new riders.

For a motorcycle training program/organization to be accepted as a state run program takes about the same process, scrutiny as to what FLIR experienced to get their certification training to be globally accepted.

Again I am not debating that L1 Thermographers can not conduct thermography from a sUAS, I am just saying that there some differences between the two.

"Why do L1 Thermographers must take the L1 sUAS Thermographers just to be certified as a sUAS."

Where is that written??? There is no such thing in the industry as a "Level 1 sUAS Thermographer; that is an ITC term. Level 1 thermographers do not need to lay down another $2k for a "certificate" that says sUAS.

Level 1 is Level 1.There is no separate standard for sUAS in the American Association for Non-Destructive Testing.

Is it a good idea to retake Level 1 if you can afford it? Absolutely. I may in the future. But let us not provide misleading information.

 

[Outta Control]

If you look at my last post this was noted by our instructor.

A classmate specifically asked about moving from sUAS to learn electrical thermography aka L1 Thermography and instructor noted they have to take the L1 Thermography course to be certified into that.

It maybe an ITC term but if ITC is globally recognized then we can loosely say that ITC/FLIR is trying to establish a new standard for sUAS.

I have enough discussion time with L1/L2 Thermographers on this issue not only from the forums but from my students that took the L1 Ther course vs the sUAS.

There are some differences on what was taught between the courses. And I am not only talking about the Part 107, which seems to be the biggest pointed out.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

ITC staff is in the business of selling ITC and they are very good at it. Just repeating this fact. Level 1 is Level 1, no Level 1 sUAS in the ASNDT.

I fully agree with you that ITC is working hard to establish a separate Level 1 UAS category. There's $$$ in it.

Imagine if ITC makes a declaration in the near future that they do not approve Level 1 Thermographers doing UAS work and "recommend" all Level 1 to take their sUAS class? A boon for for ITC profits!

That's the future. As of 2/10/18 11:15 MST Level 1 is Level 1.There is no separate standard for sUAS in the American Association for Non-Destructive Testing. Will there be? Time will tell.....

 

[Outta Control]

ITC staff is in the business of selling ITC and they are very good at it. Just repeating this fact. Level 1 is Level 1, no Level 1 sUAS in the ASNDT.

That is correct and should not be debated anymore.

I fully agree with you that ITC is working hard to establish a separate Level 1 UAS category. There's $$$ in it.

I do agree and there is a win-win reason for this.

Imagine if ITC makes a declaration in the near future that they do not approve Level 1 Thermographers doing UAS work and "recommend" all Level 1 to take their sUAS class? A boon for for ITC profits!

That's the future. As of 2/10/18 11:15 MST Level 1 is Level 1.There is no separate standard for sUAS in the American Association for Non-Destructive Testing. Will there be? Time will tell.....

I already can for see this happeneing within the next 4 years. Just wait.