Ask a sUAS Thermographer

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

Agreed, But today is today. We have a responsibility to only offer facts.

 

[Outta Control]

I agree to a point.

 

[Ray Finkle]

If you have any question in thermography, I will try to address it.

Hi,

I'm wondering about determining emissivity on a roof inspection? My client doesn't require an exact temperature reading but would like something nearly accurate. (Quantitative lite I guess - lol) The subject roof is highly reflective.

 

[Outta Control]

Hi,

I'm wondering about determining emissivity on a roof inspection? My client doesn't require an exact temperature reading but would like something nearly accurate. (Quantitative lite I guess - lol) The subject roof is highly reflective.

If your client doesn't need absolute temperature then you can just set the emissivity to 1.0 and call it as day by giving them apparent temperature.

 

[Gord955]

[QUOTEHi Gord,

Since I was not familiar with the Parrot/FLIR combo, I had to do some quick research. After watching the video the Parrot offers it is not bad of a solution. My only concerns is that the FLIR is not mounted on a 2-axis gimbal. This is important for any inspection work. Even for SAR operation I personally do not think this is there yet. I do like the idea of the ability to remove the FLIR One for more mobile use. So let me go back to the inspection work. Much like when you are taking a picture with your cell phone you have to hold the camera steady to get a focused and clear picture. This becomes more apparent on a thermal picture. The shakier the camera can capture the image, the higher likelihood the image will encounter what is known as a "thermal smear", which then results in a blurry, out of focused image for your reporting.

I am not sure what aircraft you are currently using but here is my recommendation for about the same amount of money. I would recommend looking of an older DJI Phantom, not the 2 or 3, but an old Phantom that has the mounting holes for a GoPro gimbal. You can probably find these on CL for cheap. Then get yourself a FLIR Duo (non-Radiometric) and a GoPro 2-axis Gimbal. This would be a better solution for what you are doing.

Found this photo on the internet to give you an idea of what I an talking about. One note is this person connected a ImmersionRC video transmitter to be able to view images from the FLIR.
][/QUOTE]

This was great advice, the Parrot Pro Thermal was a big disappointment, I have since upgraded to P4P+ and will set up another unit for thermal like Outta Control suggested. I must say the Flir One Pro worked pretty good on my Google Phone, I was pleased with the results.

Thanks for the great advice.

 

[devinr21]

Hi Everybody! I'm not even sure this forum is still active, however, I just started a full-time job as a Commercial Drone Pilot for an engineering firm in Pennsylvania. One of my tasks, along with flying, is expanding the aerial inspection/thermal imaging side of the company. I was wondering if anybody could give me some tips/pointers/leads on how to begin expanding into that part of the industry? Thank you guys, I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[MikeA]

I am by no means an expert, but understanding the theory by taking a SUAS course could be beneficial sUAS Training | Teledyne FLIR. Also, practicing assessing surfaces and objects with a known temperature value.

 

[Splocal]

Hello All, studying for part 107 but have 13 years experience as a level 1 thermographer in the oil and gas sector. For everyday scanning I typically use a 0.95 emissivity. Wondering what you guys are using for UAS surveys? Do you change it depending on the item of interest or just roll with one emissivity? In my experience distance plays a pretty big role in accuracy. How close are you flying above your subject while scanning?
I use FLIR tools any other software you guys prefer?
Thanks for your input!

DJI Matrice 210, FLIR XT2, Zenmuse Z30.

 

[TreeLineView]

Hello All, studying for part 107 but have 13 years experience as a level 1 thermographer in the oil and gas sector. For everyday scanning I typically use a 0.95 emissivity. Wondering what you guys are using for UAS surveys? Do you change it depending on the item of interest or just roll with one emissivity? In my experience distance plays a pretty big role in accuracy. How close are you flying above your subject while scanning?
I use FLIR tools any other software you guys prefer?
Thanks for your input!

DJI Matrice 210, FLIR XT2, Zenmuse Z30.

The majority of my targets are roofs and PV arrays, so those parameters don't really come into play for me. Qualitative data only, so far. Also Search and Rescue. I am interested in how you are using thermal technology in oil and gas. Care to share?

Fly DjI Matrice 200, XT2 and Mavic 3T if it ever arrives........

 

[Splocal]

Thanks for your input! That makes sense on the qualitative part. I guess roof and PV is more concerned about finding the temperature deltas which could indicate an issue rather then absolute temps. We use IR extensively to confirm Piping and pressure vessels are operating below the critical temps for creep and HTHA damage. We use it on heater stacks to confirm internal refractory is still in place and we use special cryogenically cooled IR cameras to inspect heater tubes through the flames to ensure we do not have coking on the tube internal walls and and/or flame impingement causing hot spots on the tubes which leads to creep and early tube failures. Emissivity is pretty important for us to ensure we are taking accurate measurements. Even then we will follow that up when possible with a touch probe to eliminate variables with IR.
I am wanting to get into roof and PV and have also considered search and rescue although from what I can tell that is more volunteer kind of work?

 

[Flybywire]

Good Evening , I am pretty new on the Forum Forgive me if this has been asked previously . I wanted to know if it’s possible to do a Thermal scan on a Clay tile Roof trying to find moisture .
No equipment yet -Have my eyes on the Mavic 3T . Thanks for having me .

 

[Splocal]

Good Evening , I am pretty new on the Forum Forgive me if this has been asked previously . I wanted to know if it’s possible to do a Thermal scan on a Clay tile Roof trying to find moisture .
No equipment yet -Have my eyes on the Mavic 3T . Thanks for having me .

I don't see why not. Personally I have never done it but have been a thermographer for over a decade. Of course some factors will come into play such as time of day you perform the scan. Ideally you want the temperature delta to be at its greatest when you scan so it is easier to identify the cooler areas. I would think a morning scan might be your best bet but again my background is not in scanning roofs so maybe someone can chime in on best time of day. When I was scanning tanks for sediment, an early morning scan would give the greatest temperature delta between the liquid in the top of the tank and the sediment in the bottom. If these are the blue glass coated tiles you will have more difficulty due to the reflection of the IR off the glass. The standard Spanish tiles will probably work well.

 

[Flybywire]

I don't see why not. Personally I have never done it but have been a thermographer for over a decade. Of course some factors will come into play such as time of day you perform the scan. Ideally you want the temperature delta to be at its greatest when you scan so it is easier to identify the cooler areas. I would think a morning scan might be your best bet but again my background is not in scanning roofs so maybe someone can chime in on best time of day. When I was scanning tanks for sediment, an early morning scan would give the greatest temperature delta between the liquid in the top of the tank and the sediment in the bottom. If these are the blue glass coated tiles you will have more difficulty due to the reflection of the IR off the glass. The standard Spanish tiles will probably work well.

Thank you very much for your prompt response . Appreciate all the tips that you have provided . This would be my first work Using Thermal Camera , so want to be very careful if the job can be done .
I was also thinking - since the work is in South Florida and there is no rain for a few days . With all the heat - would you find any moisture under that Clay Tile ? If I fly the job , I would certainly give all the feed back . I look forward to all the good advice from this Forum . Good Night .

 

[GsquaredAerials]

An old post I know but the topic applies for my question. So I bought the Matrice 30T last month to enter into thermal inspections, fire department work and volunteer SAR work. I wanted to get into this as a fallback in case I lost my job in the TV business but also because I love flying drones as well as providing a service for companies and individuals. I even signed up with Air Bears SAR organization as a volunteer as I wanted to get on the list when help is needed in my region. Very recently, I was in talks with my local fire department to hire me as their PIO/firefighter and fly fire and HAZMAT calls for them. After months of proposals and plans to get COA certified to fly over emergency scenes, the Chief finally gave me the good news they were going to though with the plan.

Not soon after that decision, I found out Tennessee's SB776 bill banning all Chinese/DJI drones for all public service sectors actually went into effect July 1,2023 which obviously included my county's fire department. That is predominantly what I wanted to do with the drone while also doing commercial aerial inspections once I got proper thermography training. In the area I live in, there's not much action when it comes to fires and HAZMAT so my plan was continue with my full time job and slowly gain thermal drone experience flying for them and while either taking thermography classes or finding knowledge online like @Outta Control offered.

So now that working for the FD is grounded and SAR work with local law enforcement may never happen (in Tennessee at least), I feel like the only other use for the M30T is aerial inspections. I'm not against that as it was something I eventually wanted to do but, it just wasn't on my radar to tackle first and now with no thermal knowledge under my belt and no contacts to get even basic work, I kinda feel lost. I did shoot some aerials with the Matrice during the aftermath of a F2 tornado and made $1400 but it wasn't because I went out and sold the footage. Someone had stolen the shots off on the internet and they offered to pay $1000 so they didn't get sued and then paid my 1/2 day rate to shoot additional footage the next day. That's about as far as I've gone to make money for myself with any of my drones. I'm in the video production business and have made money with the drones but it's because the production company's I work with knew I had a drone and needed my services. Maybe there are instances where word-of-mouth may get the ball rolling with this thermal drone but at this point, I don't even exist out there.

So I guess I'm asking for advice on how to break into the inspection business whether it's by soliciting smaller businesses to cut my teeth or finding bigger companies that may offer training. I just don't where to start.

​

 

[TreeLineView]

@Outta Control gave me some great advice when I was starting about 5 years ago. He said get out there and collect data whenever you can. Every day if possible and interpret what you see. Gain knowledge. Your equipment is depreciating faster than gas prices are rising these days. Use that equipment to gain knowledge. You need to be 100% confident in what value add you are bringing to your potential client. Case in point. I chased roofing companies around for over year. Knocked on over a hundred business doors. I learned that roofing companies have NO interest in our services. Most of them. They already know in may cases after physically walking the roof what they need to do. Inspecting seams, flashing around chillers and just feeling the roof surface under their feet. I only currently have two roofing companies that use my services and only on large jobs they are bidding. I capture and create some data for them which they add to their Proposals. Mind you just so they stand out from the other Contractors that are bidding those jobs. See some attached examples. I focused my time on asset owners and property management companies and currently have all the work I can handle.
My point is utilize the equipment you have to learn. Also, flying and capturing data/knowledge year round will helped me to think out side the box and pursue business options I never thought about until it presented itself to me just out there flying. Good luck. John

 

[GsquaredAerials]

@Outta Control I focused my time on asset owners and property management companies and currently have all the work I can handle.

Thanks for the info John. For the asset owners and prop management gigs, does that work include thermal or more just providing aerial visuals for them? If thermal, what's the average percentage?

 

[TreeLineView]

I only do Thermal work. The asset owners are small business that own their own building. The property management companies are managing many large assets with multiple chain and anchor stores. Like a Home Depot plaza. They manage all facets of the property including building upkeep. We provide a proactive approach to roof life cycle management. Baseline scans for proactive moisture remediation and reoccurring scans every 24 to 36 months to minimize business continuity and ultimately extend the life of the roof.

 

[GsquaredAerials]

I only do Thermal work. The asset owners are small business that own their own building. The property management companies are managing many large assets with multiple chain and anchor stores. Like a Home Depot plaza. They manage all facets of the property including building upkeep. We provide a proactive approach to roof life cycle management. Baseline scans for proactive moisture remediation and reoccurring scans every 24 to 36 months to minimize business continuity and ultimately extend the life of the roof.

So I guess the percentage would be 100 thermal usage . Maybe I found an open window down the hall. Thanks John. Much appreciated.

 

[TreeLineView]

So I guess the percentage would be 100 thermal usage . Maybe I found an open window down the hall. Thanks John. Much appreciated.

Always glad to share my $.02.

 

[GsquaredAerials]

Finally have some vacation time off from my job and am starting my thermal training tonight with the M30T. I'm going to plan a test mission over my neighbor's business as he has some leaking going on around his roof. It is a metal roof if that's an issue. I'm going to do the late afternoon RGB flight and then the thermal flight a couple of hours after sunset. Question, what parameters do I need to record at the time of the flight for software processing versus what the thermal image will have embedded in the file? I'll use a weather app to record ambient temps/humidity in the area but do I have to be precise to my actual location or just whatever the app selects as my closest weather station metering? Also, how do I know what height to perform this mission? Are there any Youtube links or threads here that explain this? Thanks for the help.