Bye Bye License

[aerialimagery]

No I do not think it is a good idea to fly over an emergency scene while there are police and emergency crews there, etc., although I think it could be possible to fly "around" the scene at a distance close enough to record the scene while staying far enough away not to interfere. At any rate, I have not done that and most likely never would.

But if there were a drone flying at 300' just outside of the perimeter of the scene, you would barely notice it and it wouldn't cause any problems (presuming manned aircraft are not also part of the operation).

The question remains whether such a scene could be flown before the police arrive. Is there any reason why the police would have a problem with that? Those images could be very valuable to the litigants, insurance companies, etc.

My apologies for aspersion casting. In my case I did not file any kind of complaint. I was worried I was in some kind of trouble and didn't want to aggravate the situation. I realized later he was just bluffing me and trying to intimidate me on behalf of his buddy the security man. He failed to get me to delete the images so he called a cop friend to get me to do it. (Actually I would have happily done so, had he asked me, but either he or the cop lied and said I was asked and refused).

Lastly, regarding the cited story, I can understand if the police have a problem with interference (though it seems a little far fetched to me that his drone was interfering with the police drone), but what right do they have inquiring about any of the images?

 

[PatR]

People accustomed to being treated like Gods while holding the power of a government don’t like it when they are submitted to the same oversight they impose on everyone else. They also can’t stand not having the ability to force any and everyone to comply with their position of personal power. Constitutionality is not their forte’, executing their duties as proscribed by their superiors holds priority.

The media has delivered a great many examples of police intimidating the public to prevent or stop them from recording their actions. LEA’s are also very adept at using the media to modify public psychology. All those cop TV shows are making a singular statement; you cannot win in a contest with law enforcement. Comply with the law.

The charge against the operator could well be another case of the media being used to distribute a message to the public.

None of the above belittles the importance of our law enforcement personnel. They have a very difficult and dangerous job that has to be done.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

"None of the above belittles the importance of our law enforcement personnel " Gee thanks, I feel better now.

 

[PatR]

When the truth hurts perhaps some introspection is justified?

My father was a cop, daughter, cousin, son in law, with another daughter ADA, with motorcycled buddies Sheriffs. Countless times I’ve witnessed and experienced all of them demonstrating how the law applies to “citizens” but not to them. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else. If I get pulled over for speeding I get a traffic ticket. You probably would not get pulled over because the officer behind you ran your plates and found it was issued to a member of law enforcement. If they failed to run the plate and pulled you over a quick flash of your flat badge puts you back on your way with a “be careful and have a nice day”. That’s just a simple example that happens every day, but there is more than that. A lot more. The truth is what it is. Respect and trust are hard earned but easily lost.

Law enforcement most certainly does have a critical and dangerous position in society but over the past few decades it has become militarized and often used as a weapon or tax assessor against the general population. It is also being used to force social engineering concepts not generated by them. Law enforcement should be respected, not feared, and treat all societal/economic classes equally.

Unfortunately, the upper economic and societal classes have always been treated differently and our police forces have adopted a military derived policy of employing overwhelming force and violence of action in situations where it has not been warranted. It’s unfortunate our 24-7 media portrays a society that is becoming increasingly violent while statistics indicate otherwise. Perhaps the excessive focus on the negative is why our police forces have followed suit.

I apologize for going so far off topic.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

"My father was a cop, daughter, cousin, son in law, with another daughter ADA, with motorcycled buddies Sheriffs. Countless times I’ve witnessed and experienced all of them demonstrating how the law applies to “citizens” but not to them. "
Perhaps you need a better class of friends...

"You probably would not get pulled over because the officer behind you ran your plates and found it was issued to a member of law enforcement. If they failed to run the plate and pulled you over a quick flash of your flat badge puts you back on your way with a “be careful and have a nice day”. "

I don't know which family member told you there is an MVD/DMV database that flags ex-cops but if there is one in Cali.... it didn't make it to Arizona. When a cop runs a plate here we get:

Name
Address
Vehicle make/model
VIN
Wants & Warrants
Expiration date
and that's it....no ex-cop labels. or driver's favorite color, astrological sign, turn ons, favorite music, etc.

I've been stopped by cops who never knew who I was, see there's no secret hand sign. Blabbing you are retired is considered as obnoxious as flashing a badge. Here in AZ "flashing a badge " at cop on a traffic stop is more likely to get you a ticket. That may fly in Cali, but not here.

Notwithstanding your distinguished family, I detect a definite anti authority attitude.
Go with God.....friend.

Another thread gone into the crapper...

 

[Phaedrus]

My oldest/closest friend was a Maricopa County Sheriff for a long time. One time, early in his career, we were driving to LA and got stopped by a CHP outside Indio.

He tells me "Watch this"
He badges the CHP guy, who looks at it and then says:
"Nice, I have one too (tapping his badge), and I'm going to give you a ticket to go along with yours!!"
Have a nice day!!

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

My oldest/closest friend was a Maricopa County Sheriff for a long time. One time, early in his career, we were driving to LA and got stopped by a CHP outside Indio.

He tells me "Watch this"
He badges the CHP guy, who looks at it and then says:
"Nice, I have one too (tapping his badge), and I'm going to give you a ticket to go along with yours!!"
Have a nice day!!

 

[PatR]

View attachment 1582

All California auto license plates belonging to law enforcement personnel restrict address information to prevent that info from reaching the hands of private citizens.

Riding motorcycles with a Sheriff buddy while moving through traffic at a pretty good clip we got pulled over after being chased for 7 miles through traffic. The flat badge had us both on our merry way after the pursuing officer lamented “everyone I’ve pulled over this month has been a cop”. My ADA daughter got pulled over doing in excess if 90mph. Cop forgot to run her plate and wrote her a ticket. She didn’t flash her badge as she was new to the position. Contacting the court and explaining she was L.E. dismissed the ticket. New son in law, long standing L.E., went to a California public beach with all of us one 4th of July evening. He pulled a box of fireworks from the trunk, all illegal in California and proceeded to light them off on the beach, something also illegal at that beach. When asked about violating the law he said “don’t worry about it”. When asked where he obtained the fireworks he explained he confiscated them from private citizens. Small things but in total demonstrate a serious problem.

I don’t have an anti authority complex, just an anti corruption one, regardless of whom is corrupt. Anarchy doesn’t work.

 

[LUIS MARTINEZ]

All California auto license plates belonging to law enforcement personnel restrict address information to prevent that info from reaching the hands of private citizens.

Riding motorcycles with a Sheriff buddy while moving through traffic at a pretty good clip we got pulled over after being chased for 7 miles through traffic. The flat badge had us both on our merry way after the pursuing officer lamented “everyone I’ve pulled over this month has been a cop”. My ADA daughter got pulled over doing in excess if 90mph. Cop forgot to run her plate and wrote her a ticket. She didn’t flash her badge as she was new to the position. Contacting the court and explaining she was L.E. dismissed the ticket. New son in law, long standing L.E., went to a California public beach with all of us one 4th of July evening. He pulled a box of fireworks from the trunk, all illegal in California and proceeded to light them off on the beach, something also illegal at that beach. When asked about violating the law he said “don’t worry about it”. When asked where he obtained the fireworks he explained he confiscated them from private citizens. Small things but in total demonstrate a serious problem.

I don’t have an anti authority complex, just an anti corruption one, regardless of whom is corrupt. Anarchy doesn’t work.

Wow, a pretty corrupt state. You must hate it there, with your anti-corruption views.

 

[401 Feet]

As far as flying before or after police and having photos I still see it as interfering. By citizens having those photos could possibly jeopardize an investigation, cause a sway in public opinion thus causing issue to seat an impartial jury and a host of other issues. Not sure with the fascination but it exists. But just having photos of a scene and not the facts of an entire investigation can jeopardize that investigation. My opinion but good for those police for setting the rules early in this new field.

 

[Phaedrus]

I tend to not go out of my way to annoy LE. I watch these "First Amendment Audit" videos and just think what a bunch of schumcks they are.

 

[PatR]

Wow, a pretty corrupt state. You must hate it there, with your anti-corruption views.

It’s certainly not the state it once was.

As for photos of an accident scene, they are often part of the evidence chain. Photos of an undisturbed crime or accident scene is pretty important. Who obtains them and how they are obtained is also important. The story about the drone operator may have left as much out as it revealed.

That’s the problem with media. How a story is written and the intent of the writer are highly influential in shaping public opinion. It was Paul Harvey that liked to share “The Rest of the Story”. With this one there is enough missing to suggest heavy negative bias.

 

[R.Perry]

One unpleasant experience with one dumb cop (did u file a complaint?) hardly justifies casting aspersions on all law enforcement, and like I said earlier, we don't have all the facts. If the DA agrees this dude was interfering with police, then he'll get his day in court. Taking the story aside, do you think it's a good idea to fly a drone over emergency responders working a scene?

As a retired cop I assure you the last thing I need is a drone buzzing over my head and distracting me. Every state has a statute prohibiting the obstruction of government operations, or words to that effect, and I would have had no problem citing anyone harassing me with his toy, after giving him one warning.
.
It is a mickey mouse violation, I'd write him a ticket and send him packing; takes too long to book someone.

I did get an update, FAA did take his license, but later returned it with a verbal warning.

Helicopters or fixed wings are suppose to maintain minimum of 500 feet.

What is needed is some reasonable regulations and the police need to be taught what those regulations are so they can properly enforce the laws. I'm totally opposed to cities and states creating their own laws regarding drones, they are aircraft, and being so are under FAA rules and regulations.

 

[Phaedrus]

The FAA told you helicopters must remain above 500 feet? According to the FARs there is no such requirement for helicopters. There is for fixed wing.

91.119
(d)Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA;

 

[aerialimagery]

Maybe he was referring to accident scenes?

At any rate, a fixed-wing can go lower than 500' if it remains 500' away from buildings and people.

 

[AH-1G]

Maybe he was referring to accident scenes?

At any rate, a fixed-wing can go lower than 500' if it remains 500' away from buildings and people.

I don't know what state that's required, here in Florida I see private helicopters flying lower than 500', very low!
Yep 75' and less, private helicopters buzzing around from time to time. No they're not police or medical air.
I'm thinking it's with all the construction going on?

 

[R Martin]

When the truth hurts perhaps some introspection is justified?

My father was a cop, daughter, cousin, son in law, with another daughter ADA, with motorcycled buddies Sheriffs. Countless times I’ve witnessed and experienced all of them demonstrating how the law applies to “citizens” but not to them. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else. If I get pulled over for speeding I get a traffic ticket. You probably would not get pulled over because the officer behind you ran your plates and found it was issued to a member of law enforcement. If they failed to run the plate and pulled you over a quick flash of your flat badge puts you back on your way with a “be careful and have a nice day”. That’s just a simple example that happens every day, but there is more than that. A lot more. The truth is what it is. Respect and trust are hard earned but easily lost.

That says more about the people you mentioned above than law enforcement in general. The one's I know live what they preach and preach what they live.

 

[PatR]

I believe the language used for a helicopter’s minimum altitude goes something like “no lower than what would allow for a safe landing should a power unit fail”

In effect, a helicopter does not have a minimum flight altitude, they a minimum safe altitude based upon conditions. Anywhere between 200’ and 500’ are “normal” operating altitudes. Many of the larger police aerial agencies use 200’ as their operating floor.

 

[Phaedrus]

The language for heli's is what I quoted above:

91.119
(d)Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA;

However, paragraph (a) does state:

(a)Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

That applies to fixed wing and rotary wing alike.

 

[Fred Garvin]

.....I believe the language used for a helicopter’s minimum altitude goes something like “no lower than what would allow for a safe landing should a power unit”......

That’s pretty open....during check rides , doing emergency auto rotations, the bird would be hovering around 10’ and the FI would suddenly roll off the throttle....Pilot had to react quickly to control the bird and pull pitch correctly to set down softly. They were fun to watch because you’d hear the engine spool down and the blade cone was really obvious as it settled down.