FAA UAS facility maps - can you get authorization to fly in the ”0 feet” grids?

[BigAl07]

I don't know how LAANC denied operations work but the "original" requests for AA were done at the FAA first and if they met the FAA's needs they were referred to the local facility for review and a final approval/denial.

I would imagine that's pretty much how these are handled now that fall outside of LAANC workings as well.

 

[MapMaker53]

I'm guessing when ATC takes the final look at it, they are only concerned with the location, altitude, date and time for their thumbs up or down.

 

[RickMC]

I’m failing to see the point of a LAANC airport allowing you to put in a request through LAANC for 0 grid airspace if they never even bother looking at the requests. The whole point of LAANC is to speed up the authorization process. If they aren’t going to have a quick turnaround for 0 grid authorization requests they shouldn’t even allow a request through LAANC and make you do it through FAAdronezone. I put in a LAANC request for 0 grid days ago and it looks like it’s going to get automatically cancelled again because no one will look at it.

 

[MapMaker53]

Don't know which airport you're dealing with RickMC, but it might help if you stop by and try to talk to the ATC supervisor and explain your dilemma. I've found that they will work with you if your altitude won't be any higher than 75' AGL, even without going through the waiver application process if you are hitting a dead end and are running up against a deadline for a job. All the ATC guys really care about is that you will not be interfering with their planes in any manner. They might just let you call them before and after a planned 75' max altitude flight as long as they know exactly where you are and can contact you. Might be a good excuse to get to know each other.

 

[RickMC]

Don't know which airport you're dealing with RickMC, but it might help if you stop by and try to talk to the ATC supervisor and explain your dilemma. I've found that they will work with you if your altitude won't be any higher than 75' AGL, even without going through the waiver application process if you are hitting a dead end and are running up against a deadline for a job. All the ATC guys really care about is that you will not be interfering with their planes in any manner. They might just let you call them before and after a planned 75' max altitude flight as long as they know exactly where you are and can contact you. Might be a good excuse to get to know each other.

The confirmation text I got when I submitted the request through Kittyhawk says “FAA discourages contacting ATC”. Lol. It says FAA will attempt to respond to your request within 30 days. It’s at a regional local airport that doesn’t even have public flights, only private/charters so they don’t even have flights every day.

 

[MapMaker53]

I would visit them anyway. I've had some success with that, which I can't get into. And they (ATC) didn't mind at all. At the very least, you should be able to speak with the ATC supervisor just to "get his advice as to how to get a more rapid approval or denial for a zero grid cell". He might just say to give them a heads up before you fly and let them know where you are.

And there's no such thing as having too many ATC friends when you happen to be a professional drone pilot.

 

[BigAl07]

The confirmation text I got when I submitted the request through Kittyhawk says “FAA discourages contacting ATC”.

That's because ATC was getting HAMMERED with UAS operators calling for every flight (commercial and hobby) near an airport. They want us to use LAANC for the easy stuff (of course) but sometimes you have to talk to a human being who is making decisions.

Even contacting them directly might get you a, "It aint gonna happen here" reply but you never know till you try.

As stated above, it's always a good idea to know who ATC is and have an open line of communication with them.

 

[RickMC]

That's because ATC was getting HAMMERED with UAS operators calling for every flight (commercial and hobby) near an airport. They want us to use LAANC for the easy stuff (of course) but sometimes you have to talk to a human being who is making decisions.

Even contacting them directly might get you a, "It aint gonna happen here" reply but you never know till you try.

As stated above, it's always a good idea to know who ATC is and have an open line of communication with them.

So if I contact an ATC and they tell me it’s OK to fly then I’m good to go and don’t have to wait on FAA?

 

[BigAl07]

So if I contact an ATC and they tell me it’s OK to fly then I’m good to go and don’t have to wait on FAA?

You want it in writing or something to put in your files as proof.

But technically they can give you approval until the FARs are written other wise.

 

[RickMC]

You want it in writing or something to put in your files as proof.

But technically they can give you approval until the FARs are written other wise.

Any pointers for calling ATC? Are they generally friendly or hostile about drones? What information do I need to give them besides location of operation?

 

[BigAl07]

Any pointers for calling ATC? Are they generally friendly or hostile about drones? What information do I need to give them besides location of operation?

I'm pretty sure you'll find most of what you're looking for in this thread:

Getting to know ATC?

What is the best way to get to know ATC? I have a COA for two of our local airports that do not participate in LAANC. One of the requirements is to call in before each flight but, when I do It they request different information and deny without further explanation. One only asked altitude the...

commercialdronepilots.com

 

[RickMC]

I'm pretty sure you'll find most of what you're looking for in this thread:

Getting to know ATC?

What is the best way to get to know ATC? I have a COA for two of our local airports that do not participate in LAANC. One of the requirements is to call in before each flight but, when I do It they request different information and deny without further explanation. One only asked altitude the...

commercialdronepilots.com

That’s a lot of good info. So the ATC could give me clearance to fly even though it’s supposed to be done through LAANC? The zero grid LAANC request is just taking to long to get a response for and I was hoping to do this flight sooner than later.

 

[Davidblezard]

I've tried that via AirMap. First got rejected upon submission when requesting a flight time for today. Said it was too close a date for manual approval. I then tried for June 1st and got rejected because it was beyond 90 days out. My third attempt was for May 1st and the response I get is:

FAA - JFK
Manual authorization to fly in controlled airspace
Rejected Upon Submission
Do Not fly in Class B controlled airspace without ATC authorization.

Same rejection using other services. LAANC doesn't seem to work for this cell. Tried the same using Kittyhawk, and that just says LAANC is not active or available for the planned operation area. I'm going to reach out to ATC to get their advice on how best to proceed in this case where a LAANC cell is shared by the two airports.

I live in a zero zone and need to take some photos of my house. Flight ceiling will be 50 feet. I had similar Reject upon submission for today or tomorrow. My submission was accepted for a week from today. It is pending authorization. Let’s see what happens. I’ll post the results. I’m 2.7 miles from the airport center.

 

[BigAl07]

That’s a lot of good info. So the ATC could give me clearance to fly even though it’s supposed to be done through LAANC? The zero grid LAANC request is just taking to long to get a response for and I was hoping to do this flight sooner than later.

Yes ATC "could" give you authorization but I would not count/bank on it. Those are getting fewer and fewer (unfortunately).

Here are some excellent videos that are well worth the few minutes to watch:

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[RickMC]

Yes ATC "could" give you authorization but I would not count/bank on it. Those are getting fewer and fewer (unfortunately).

Here are some excellent videos that are well worth the few minutes to watch:

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Thanks for the videos. A lot of good info there. I am going to call the ATC later today. Maybe I’m being a bit naive, but I feel like I have a good chance of them approving my flight. It’s a small regional Class D airport that only has charter and private flights. I looked at their scheduled arrivals and departures and there is nothing scheduled during the time I want to conduct my flight. Would there be any reason for ATC to deny me? If there are no flights coming in or going out, why wouldn’t they allow a safe drone flight to take place?

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for the videos. A lot of good info there. I am going to call the ATC later today. Maybe I’m being a bit naive, but I feel like I have a good chance of them approving my flight. It’s a small regional Class D airport that only has charter and private flights. I looked at their scheduled arrivals and departures and there is nothing scheduled during the time I want to conduct my flight. Would there be any reason for ATC to deny me? If there are no flights coming in or going out, why wouldn’t they allow a safe drone flight to take place?

Depending on the airport there could be unscheduled flights coming and going. I know we have a few airports around here that we "hop" to and from (in manned aircraft) and we have no schedule what so ever. And this is Class Charlie which tends to be more busy than Delta airspace.

Scheduled flights are but one part of the equation.

If you ask for a realistic altitude and in a realistic area then you might get approved. Too many variables involved to even toss a guess out there.

 

[RickMC]

Depending on the airport there could be unscheduled flights coming and going. I know we have a few airports around here that we "hop" to and from (in manned aircraft) and we have no schedule what so ever. And this is Class Charlie which tends to be more busy than Delta airspace.

Scheduled flights are but one part of the equation.

If you ask for a realistic altitude and in a realistic area then you might get approved. Too many variables involved to even toss a guess out there.

Thanks BigAl!. I’ll update this thread after I make my call.

 

[RickMC]

Well I never got around to calling the ATC. I was doing some more research and came across this: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_JO_7200_23_2.pdf

It’s an FAA document that states if a Part 107 calls an ATC directly for authorization that the facility must not issue authorization.

So is there any point in me even trying to call? Aren’t all ATCs required to follow this FAA Order?

 

[BigAl07]

Well I never got around to calling the ATC. I was doing some more research and came across this: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_JO_7200_23_2.pdf

It’s an FAA document that states if a Part 107 calls an ATC directly for authorization that the facility must not issue authorization.

So is there any point in me even trying to call? Aren’t all ATCs required to follow this FAA Order?

It's entirely up to you. They want you to use the "automated" and "online" systems of course and many towers won't even consider giving an approval. But that's not always the case. We've called and gotten verbal on more than one occasion but each facility is it's own entity.

I look at it like this.. the worst thing they can say is NO!! But you might be surprised and make a contact that you can coordinate with going forward.

 

[RickMC]

It's entirely up to you. They want you to use the "automated" and "online" systems of course and many towers won't even consider giving an approval. But that's not always the case. We've called and gotten verbal on more than one occasion but each facility is it's own entity.

I look at it like this.. the worst thing they can say is NO!! But you might be surprised and make a contact that you can coordinate with going forward.

Called the tower this morning and asked about flying and they asked if I wanted to do it right now and I said that I wanted to do it later this afternoon. They said to call back closer to the time I want to fly. I’ll take that as a positive as they could have told me no right then and there. We will see what happens when I call back later. The person I talked to was very friendly.